value of religion

[cuchulain]

There are those, including myself, who argue the validity of religion.  There are two sides to those arguments, at the least.  One side claims a religion is valid, that it is correct, or right, whatever word you could want to use.  Christianity claims that god is all powerful, has set down x commandments in his book, that the book is right.  Druidry claims that we all have an inherent link with nature and should approach it with respect, though in terms of deity it leaves much up to the follower, aside from virtually deifying nature that is.  Other religions, other deities and tenets...so on to the question at hand.

 

Do you feel that religion has value beyond its correctness, rightness, etc...?  Whether there is legitimately a god and Jesus, does christianity offer anything outside of those figures?  If it does, are those figures central and essential to what it offers, or can they be cut out from that religion and still keep most of the core tenets in tact?  Same for any other religion, of course...Druidry and nature, is there essential deity, or deification of nature, or can the tenets of the religion be followed to good cause without the distraction of the holy being inserted?  Also, do some people by nature NEED religion?  

 

For my personal answer:  I believe that the figures and deities behind religion are all fictitious.  That's part of the reason I am curious about other people's view on this subject.  If the deity is irrelevant, or at least takes a back seat to the tenets, then it stands to reason that any religion, made up or otherwise, becomes just as valid as the religion with the deity.  Johnathan asked some time back about Jediism, I suppose that got me to wondering.  A person understanding the faith and tenets of any fictional religion could in theory draw goodness and rightness from that religion, could be benefited by that religion.  A person could worship the Seven, like in Game of Thrones, and have a valid religion.  Or the spaghetti monster, or the Creator from the Wheel of Time series...they could adapt traditions from the various schools of study in the Dune series...and even though these religions are acknowledged as fiction, the religion would then become relevant and real in terms of meaning delivered to its followers.  

I know some people who "Need" religion, need to be a follower of something.  A friend of mine in particular, Aron, comes to mind.  It isn't that he is a lesser person, or incapable of determining his own course if need be.  He has that certain aspect of character that lends itself to being a follower.  He is definitely a bit on the gullible side, much like myself I suppose with my naivety.  He is one such that finds wonder and awe irresistible, even in fiction.  Maybe especially in fiction.  He has had a bad run of things throughout the majority of his life, and he smiles and takes it on.  I don't say that it doesn't affect him, because it clearly does.  But he has the ability to frame things so they aren't as hurtful to him, and that's something I can respect.  One of the primary methods he uses is fiction and religion, especially pulp fiction, monster movies, things of that nature.  To me as an observer, I see him utilize the tools of fiction, of movies, books, and comics, in the same way he utilizes religion(he is a christian, by the way, if that matters).  I have seen him draw on the inspirations of the werewolf just as much as the inspirations of the bible, if not more so.  

Then, there are the people I know who have addiction problems.  Sometimes they cross over.  It seems like one of the big things with AA, or any other anonymous program, is that religion.  I personally don't see it, but then I am not an addict either.  Maybe there is something there that connects people to religion.

 

I just thought it would be an interesting question to pose to others, so feel free to respond.  Purely in the interest of getting to know where others stand, of course.  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I think that you have made the question, way too complicated.  Here's a thought experiment.

 

The space ship lands.  It's a Vulcan space ship.  (Well, Vulcan like)  The crew are intelligent, logical and curious.  They want to know about Earth religion.  They want to know if there is anything in Earth religion, that could be relevant to them.  Well?

 

Possibly Buddhism.  A Buddhist could have a conversation with anyone, about the nature of suffering, and the process of releasing desire.

 

Possibly Taoism.  A Taoist could discuss the nature of change, and the union of opposites, with anyone.  There are also the 64 poems.  "The Tao that can be named, is not the eternal Tao....."

 

Possibly Pantheism.  The sacred nature of everything as a totality.  Everything is everything.

 

Atheism is not a religion.  Still, a Human Atheist might want to know, if the visitors have a non-theistic philosophy, that serves their needs.  I sure would.  Would the visitors be Atheist?  Until they land, it's pure speculation.

 

Humanism is not religion.  Still, the visitors might find Earth Humanism interesting.

 

Of course, other Earth philosophies.  For instance, the Stoics.  The appeal is to reason.

 

 

 

Christianity would be a hard sell.  Obviously, the visitors are not suffering from Original Sin.  They are not looking for redemption.

 

Judaism would be off the table.  Jews don't preach to gentiles.

 

I think Islam would be a hard sell.

 

Of course, the visitors might be looking for something new, different and exotic.  Like an American in South America, looking for a Shaman to study with.  Like an American in India, looking for a guru.

 

Or, they could be missionaries.

 

 

Forgive me.  I have to say it.

 

"TO  SERVE  MAN"

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[RevBogovac]

On 2/11/2019 at 12:37 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

[...] Forgive me.  I have to say it.

 

"TO  SERVE  MAN"

 

 

 

 

 

Forgive me. I have to ask: do you mean like "V" (in the 80's)?

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

16 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Forgive me. I have to ask: do you mean like "V" (in the 80's)?

 

 

 

It was an old episode of the Twilight Zone.  An alien, addressing the U.N., puts down his book and leaves it there.  The title translated as --  "TO  SERVE  Man".  It turned out to be a cookbook.  

 

 

 

[Rev. Calli]

3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

It was an old episode of the Twilight Zone.  An alien, addressing the U.N., puts down his book and leaves it there.  The title translated as --  "TO  SERVE  Man".  It turned out to be a cookbook.  

 

 

 

 

[Rev. Calli]

One of the best episodes ever.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

9 minutes ago, Rev. Calli said:

One of the best episodes ever.

 

 

 

Yes, and so well done.

 

 

[RabbiO]

And the recipes were fantastic - unless one keeps kosher.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, RabbiO said:

And the recipes were fantastic - unless one keeps kosher.

 

 

Or vegetarian.

[RevBogovac]

13 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Forgive me. I have to ask: do you mean like "V" (in the 80's)?

 

 

13 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

It was an old episode of the Twilight Zone.  An alien, addressing the U.N., puts down his book and leaves it there.  The title translated as --  "TO  SERVE  Man".  It turned out to be a cookbook.  

 

 

 

 

Hmkay, will have to search that one...

 

But it is the same reverence; in "V" the humans "served" the aliens too... 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I did a whole thought piece, on Earth religion, and what it might have to offer an alien.  Isn't anything else worth mentioning?

 

 

[mark 45]

not really.

if there  is an advanced beings(aliens),wouldn't they be smart enough to avoid the planet?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, mark 45 said:

not really.

if there  is an advanced beings(aliens),wouldn't they be smart enough to avoid the planet?

 

 

Advanced technology might indicate intelligence.  It has nothing to do with sanity.  If they're missionaries, they could be total loons.

 

About half a year ago, a Christian missionary tried bringing Christ to an isolated, xenophobic tribe; off the coast of Brazil.  They kill all outsiders, so the island is forbidden.  When the missionary got close enough, the tribe killed him with an arrow.

 

Alien visitors to Earth would have tech.  They would have intelligence.  Sanity?  Judgment?  It's an open question.

 

 

[Brother Kaman]

Why should one believe that alien life is more advanced than we are? Perhaps they are all as screwed up as we are and kill each other off before any true potential can be realized.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

12 minutes ago, Brother Kaman said:

Why should one believe that alien life is more advanced than we are? Perhaps they are all as screwed up as we are and kill each other off before any true potential can be realized.

 

If they can cross Interstella space, they have tech.  Everything else is speculation.

 

 

[Brother Kaman]

4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

If they can cross Interstella space, they have tech.  Everything else is speculation.

 

Give them a few years and they will all be Jehova's Witnesses. What we must be concerned with is if they really know we are home and just not answering the door.

[RevBogovac]

16 hours ago, mark 45 said:

not really.

if there  is an advanced beings(aliens),wouldn't they be smart enough to avoid the planet?

 

Maybe...

 

Quote

Have Aliens Found Us? A Harvard Astronomer on the Mysterious Interstellar Object ‘Oumuamua'

 

On October 19, 2017, astronomers at the University of Hawaii spotted a strange object travelling through our solar system, which they later described as “a red and extremely elongated asteroid.” It was the first interstellar object to be detected within our solar system; the scientists named it ‘Oumuamua, the Hawaiian word for a scout or messenger. The following October, Avi Loeb, the chair of Harvard’s astronomy department, co-wrote a paper (with a Harvard postdoctoral fellow, Shmuel Bialy) that examined ‘Oumuamua’s “peculiar acceleration” and suggested that the object “may be a fully operational probe sent intentionally to Earth’s vicinity by an alien civilization.” 

 

Source: The Newyorker, by Isaac Chotiner, Jan. 14, 2019

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

10 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

Give them a few years and they will all be Jehova's Witnesses. What we must be concerned with is if they really know we are home and just not answering the door.

 

 

It's too late to hide.  Our TV and radio signals can not be confused with anything natural.  Neither can the light given off by our cities.  The pollution in our air is also not natural.

 

[cuchulain]

56 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

It's too late to hide.  Our TV and radio signals can not be confused with anything natural.  Neither can the light given off by our cities.  The pollution in our air is also not natural.

 

"i know your in there.  I can hear your tv...". 😂

[Key]

4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

It's too late to hide.  Our TV and radio signals can not be confused with anything natural.  Neither can the light given off by our cities.  The pollution in our air is also not natural.

 

Didn't Jimmy Hoffa leave a light on? Or maybe I got the quote wrong.