Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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Everything posted by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

  1. I think we should begin by understanding what you mean by Hedonism "Living for pleasure?" It's a good start. People who enjoy their lives -- food, sex, art, music, etc. -- are going to live longer and be more healthy, than people who don't. It's a good start, but it's not enough. Living only for pleasure is an unbalanced life, which will not lead to pleasure. I think Buddha had it right when he called for the Middle Path of Moderation. Enjoy your food. Don't be a glutton. Get enough sleep. Don't sleep too much. Look after others.
  2. I have two different responses. 1. Are you really conflating Atheism with Communism? "Splitting hairs"? Communism is a full ideology. Atheism is not an ideology. It's non-belief. 2. If you want to charge modern China with their crimes, you left out a few. The persecution of Falun Gong Theft and trafficking in human organs Over fishing/strip mining of the world's waters Destruction of ancient reefs for their artificial islands Concealing information about the Corona virus. Selling of fake medicines around the world Sellin
  3. Your point is good. I have no quarrel with the Quakers. Well, they did produce Richard M. Nixon. I know. It's not fair to mention that. I have my own issues.
  4. I may be misreading this. It looks a lot like a common argument. Hitler was not an Atheist. He was Catholic. The Vatican had no difficulty working with his government. He was never excommunicated. The majority of Germans at that time, were Catholic or Lutheran. The German Army belt buckles said, in translation, "God is with us." I suspect that you are conflating Atheism with Communism. After Russia and China became Communist, their official ideology included Atheism. Still, there is a distinction to be made. Communism is not Godless. It simply substitutes the
  5. Actually, he cared a lot. After running the church for over twenty years, the founder didn't want to do it any more. It's a burden to run a real church. Also, I don't have to tell you how much grief we got from pious idiots. An Agnostic group is a magnet for religious morons. It wears a man down. Well, the founder retired. I could have taken over. I have enough grief in my life. Being a member can be fun. Actually running the place? Not so much. The moderators on this board might wish to comment.
  6. It's your idea. If you wish to start such a thread, it will be my pleasure to join you there in conversation.
  7. My understanding of philosophy seems a bit looser than yours. Really, any world outlook can be a philosophy. Strictly my own understanding -- what is the distinction between religion and philosophy? Religions have clergy. We can make further distinctions. Some clergy have authority. Others lead only by example. The ULC is a church and an interfaith religion. We are clergy who have no authority. A further distinction between Religion and Philosophy. Real religions have body counts. The exception is the Jains. The more crazy and extreme a Jain gets,
  8. Nothing in particular. Anything not based on the supernatural. I hesitate to be more specific. Philosophy is a vast subject. I don't want to be half-vast about it.
  9. Alright. Let us consider that. It can bring people together to improve themselves and their communities. Those are three worthwhile goals. Are there secular ways to achieve these goals? Maybe secular philosophy? Which brings us back to religion. By any label, do we need the supernatural? No. I don't think that we do. Next question. If the whole world went Atheist, would this be paradise? No, it wouldn't. The world would still be a mess, because people would still be a mess. Greedy, selfish and all the rest. I think the world would be
  10. I have seen a few Sponge videos. What he's against is clear enough. I'm rather vague about what he does believe. This is not the way of someone pushing doctrine. In style and in manner, he reminds me of Reform Judaism. It's mostly about rejecting doctrine. There's not a lot of substance to replace it. It's mostly empty. It's like a homeopathic remedy. It's harmless because there's no content, but what good is it?
  11. A metaphysical humanist? I'm sure it's harmless. I don't see the point.
  12. I know. It's also clear that these views are not your views. At least, not any more. I'm simply reacting. As conversation. As an Atheist, I'm wondering why I would believe. As an Agnostic, I'm wondering what the evidence is, that any of this is true. As an Apatheist, I'm wondering -- so what? It's all so very clever. Years of contemplation and pondering. I hope that Rev. Dr. Spong got some pleasure from all that effort. Seriously. In the end. So what? Does it change anything? Anything at all? God is an impenetrable mystery. All right.
  13. We can cut to the chase. Even if it's all true -- big assumption -- so what? Why does any of this matter?
  14. Fair enough. It does leave a few questions hanging. Does any of it matter? Why does it matter? How do we know any of this is true? It goes against Christian tradition. I thought the point of the Incarnation was to make God understandable. God is still a mystery? All right. So what? God is beyond my comprehension? Alright. Why should I bother about it?
  15. This is his definition of God? God is a mystery? How is that different from Atheism? Do you believe in a mystery? How is that different from Agnosticism? Do you know that a mystery exists? How is that different from Deism? There used to be an active mystery, which is no longer active? How is this different from Pantheism? The totality of everything is a mystery? This is a deepity. Something which at first glance, looks impressive. On deeper examination, it's nothing. It's also the problem with theologians. They love making simple things compl
  16. You can do better. There are worse things than being alone. Having bad friends is one of them.
  17. Thank you. I was not always the class act that I am now. As they say in the old country -- "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." While I'm waxing philosophic, I have a thought for you, that a Satanic Humanist might enjoy. "Be grateful for your enemies. They will show you truths about yourself, that your friends never would."
  18. I think I can clarify things here -- at the risk of my putting words into Damnthing's mouth. It is not the pendant which Damnthing is reacting too. It is the attitude behind the pendant, which in effect is weaponizing the pendant. We are talking about Mr. Lindell's use of his cross pendant. Consider a parallel example. President Trump has a group of peaceful protesters gassed by the military. Why? For a photo op. So that he can hold up a Bible in front of a church. The Bible itself is not an issue here. It is only being used as a prop. In like manner, the churc
  19. I understand your point. You were clear. I'm only saying that there are other people who wear the cross, visibly, with diverse reasons.
  20. I think this video is an interesting treatment. What is the distinction between Deism and Atheism? Deism has no revelation; no scriptures; no prayer; No involvement from or with God. God sets the Universe into motion, then wanders off. It's practical Atheism without the dreaded Atheist word. Does it matter if God has no involvement -- or no existence? I don't think so. What is the distinction between Pantheism and Atheism? Speaking simply, Pantheism holds that God is everything and everything is God. Speaking simply, Atheism is that there is no reason to take