Jonathan H. B. Lobl

My background is Jewish. I went through a period in my life, when my religious involvement was strong. Prayer and study. I had a circle of Hassidic friends. Well, things change. I did.

Yes. Of course. A typical bully. He can dish out the abuse, but he can't take it. Of course, he speaks for God. He's God's representative. That's why we must have respect for the chosen messenger -- and his artistic style of delivery.

Thank you, Rabbi. While I will not be observing the event -- I wish you a happy and joyous Passover. Jonathan

Nice try. Futile, but nice. You will find that Faith trumps reality.

How little you understand my position. It's God, that I consider a fairy tale. Your religion is only one of many.

You think that your writing is artistic? Alright. What ever floats your boat.

To be fair, Mieshec didn't say that we're stupid. He said that we're uneducated. The man who couldn't structure an English sentence to save his life, thinks that we're uneducated. Dude, it's Mieshec. Don't worry about it. Life is too short.

You are free to post anything you wish. I am free to respond. Deal with it.

Mieshack is a man of God. He said so himself. What more needs to be said?

You lack imagination.

Yes. No answer at all, is better than an answer, which is assuredly wrong.

An honest question, is still better than a dishonest answer. I don't know is still a good answer. At this point in my life, the only reason I could have to care about the Bible -- is if someone I respect -- a genuine thinker -- could demonstrate real value in the Bible. Look at the people on this board, who follow the Bible. Fact free assertions and appeals to blind faith. No thanks. I've already read the Bible. Cover to cover. It's too late to BS me.

Biblical answers may require some faith to accept, but at least your not left in ignorance wondering what your life, origin, purpose, and meaning are all about. Wait. You're serious? Yes, faith is required, but at least your not left in a "I don't know nothing" dilemma.

I already had this discussion with Dan. According to Dan, evidence would negate the need for Faith. Since God values Faith -- God does not value evidence. That's why there isn't any. Of course, Dan has also insisted that Spirit can't have objective evidence. Because it's Spirit. Pick your favorite excuse. Either way, we end up in the same place. Without evidence. So, I ask you. In the complete absence of evidence -- does it matter? Not to me.

Yes. What gets me is that special smugness, that true believers have. They have the TRUTH. They KNOW. You don't.

So much for my resolve. I don't know is an answer. Much of the time, a right good answer it is. It is an honest answer and much better than an empty assertion. Even when the empty assertion, is stated with sincerity.

The heart does not, as you say, "emanate love". Negative emotions, rage and resentment, will have a destructive influence on the heart. Also digestion, elimination and the muscles. The mind influences the body and the body influences the mind. When you establish that the soul exists, we can go on to discuss what it does. Your understanding of nonreligious people, leaves much to be desired.

Yes. Think of all the true believers. Digging up the Middle East, looking for proof. What did they find? Besides not being a science book -- the Bible also isn't a history book.

Dude. It's Dan.

because it ain't in no science books. That's true. There is no reliable information about "spirit" or "soul" in science books. We can agree on this. no more than your heart has anything to do with your emotions. Spoken like a man who disdains science. Emotions have significant influence on the heart. Distinguishing between spirit, soul, mind, brain, and heart, even confuses me. Allow me to assist with your confusion. Mind, brain and heart all exist. Spirit and Soul are religion. I take no position on this matter. Consider me "Agnostic".

So far as I'm concerned, talking about "spirit" or "soul" is exactly like talking about God. We have no objective, verifiable facts. No hard evidence. Not even soft evidence. Nothing at all. "Spirit" could exist. There's no good reason to believe that this is the case -- so it doesn't actually matter. When objective, verifiable facts become available --then -- it will matter. In the meantime, it is a waste of time and effort to argue meaningless metaphysics, with those who care only about "faith" -- which is just another word for "opinion".

What does it matter? More fact free assertions. Yet again, anything which can be asserted, without evidence, can be dismissed, without evidence. It doesn't matter.

What do we actually know about "spirit"? We have plenty of Scripture. We have plenty of faith statements and empty assertions. But what do we actually know about "Spirit"? Nothing. We have no hard facts. We have plenty of pretend facts based on nothing. Nothing at all. It all boils down to faith and assertion. It isn't even bad evidence. It's no evidence at all. Which makes the assertions meaningless and irrelevant. Anything which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed, without evidence.

Not too me. We can dance around the details. The Exodus, as stated in Exodus, never happened. There was no Mosses; No Ten Plagues; No drowning of the Egyptian Army -- and no wandering lost in the dessert for forty years. For me, this is part of a larger picture. No historic Adam and Eve; No historic Mosses and no historic Jesus. It takes more than bald assertion, to make historic events real. If there was real evidence for any of it -- the pious would be rubbing our faces in it. They're not because there isn't any. That leaves us with -- Faith. No.

Thank you. It's been a learning experience. For some time, I was convinced that Dan was trying to provoke me. I am reevaluating. In the meantime, it seems best to disengage. When Fire and Ice try to dance, all they do is make steam.