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  3. When you start looking for logic or consistency, failure is inevitable. Consider the sacrifice of Jesus. The sacrifice that saved everyone, everywhere, for all time. What kind of ultimate sacrifice is this? Seriously, did he stay dead? Taking the story at face value -- he rose from the dead in three days. That's it. God in the flesh was dead for three days. Now he reigns at the right hand of God the Father. The world's worst weekend, followed by eternal glory. Some sacrifice. When we die, we stay dead.
  4. The word God can be describing many things. I guess if there is a conscious god then to separate itself from the processes of just functions I look for logical sequences of suggested thought and consistency. However, that may be a mistake because it maybe possible for a stupid blundering god. With the biblical god I see Inconsistencies in that you have an OT god who is busy destroying all in its path and a NT god that is prepared to die to save everyone. That to me causes cognitive dissonance and I see a break in the logical pathways. That is one of the reasons I don't see the biblical good as possible. It is the quandary a good God that is also a psychopathic killer, a loving god who cannot forgive disobedience or caring God who claims to intervene but does not. That to me is evidence of inconsistency and the absence of reality, but I could be wrong a stupid, temperamental, inconsistent, or a illogical god may exist.
  5. To speak of God in the abstract, is not useful. God is a three letter word. It helps to be specific. There is the God of Deism. Maybe it is real. Maybe it's not. I don't think it actually matters. There is the God of Pantheism. There are some interesting ideas here. All natural forces as God? Conflating God with the Universe? Maybe the Universe itself is sentient? The connective unity of all things? God is One? Some interesting ideas. I think it makes confusion without benefit, to throw in the God word. There are the modernisms. God is Love. God is the ultimate mystery. Etc. In the end, it's all word salad. IMO Taoism allows for more abstraction. "The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao." Sometimes, Tao is translated as God. I think that doing so is a mistake. The Force, is dumbed down Taoism, with it's own mythology and magic. The God of Hinduism or Vedanta is open to interpretation. It is many gods. It is one God with many aspects. Similar to the Christian Trinity, except the idea is taken a lot further. Of course, the God of the Bible and Koran. Along with the angels, devils and other supernatural elements. I suppose it could be real. There is no good reason to think so. The God's attributes are a logical contradiction. Pretense to the contrary, there is no supporting evidence. But sure, it could be real. Not that it matters.
  6. That is very much my point. It is Dan. Why am I engaged with this? I know better. It doesn't matter. It's time to let go. I'm still here for friendly conversation. I'm not leaving. I'm done with crazy.
  7. If someone wants me to accept an unjustiied belief, then they have to justify the belief and prove that that there is something in the belief and it's not just supported by fiction and unsubstantiated repetitive dogma. It should be something I can question in my own mind without emotional blackmail by saying I will be punished by their believed unsubstantiated god for doing so. I am 65 years of age and witnessed much suffering and hurt as people make sense of this life in desperate conditions. I can say I want a chance for me and everyone to be forgiven because there are many hurts in this life. The idea of a so called god who cannot see that and wants to destroy all who do not have a said belief is for me immoral and then when I see that god has no evidence or intervention and watched so many die in war, disease, hunger, disaster, poverty and can sit back and watch 6 million Jews being massacred, or others in the new years day tidal wave and so many other events and then has the blatant cheek to say that God loves us then forgive me if I vomit with the revulsion. I demand real proof and not notion.
  8. Last week
  9. I don't know how to respond to that. Words fail.
  10. No, it was not a direct bible quote, but I was actually sugar-coating it for the sake of those who are easily offended; "The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42). So "unpleasant experience" seemed like a mild and less-threatening description of all that's written about the fate of nonbelievers.. Sometimes my extreme politeness boggles the mind
  11. You may be a person of many gifts, but apparently the ability to write in intelligible English is not one of them. Is English a second language for you? If so, what is your native tongue?
  12. Alright Dan. One more time. It is not the Bible's threats that I find repugnant. It is your threats that irritate me. Perhaps you don't remember making threats? Your words were not hard to retrieve. Perhaps this will jog your memory. "The evidence came and left, but don't worry, he said "I'll be back". Not believing now will make that second advent a very unpleasant experience." If you insist on making threats, the very least you can do, is remember them. That is not the Bible making a threat. That's you.
  13. Eternal life is a persuasive means.... God desires your trust (faith), but He doesn't need it. I wasn't looking for converts, I was simply correcting some irrational and ridiculous biblical conclusions.. Like cuchulain saying that belief didn't matter. True... I only know that if I didn't believe the bible, nothing it says would threaten me. I gave a simplified explanation, but much of the wickedness was do to human contamination. Fallen angels produced nephilim, a biblical race of giants or demigods. Noah's family were the only pure undefiled descendants of Adam. But yes, sin survived of course, we are all born in sin. A&E were a test, and they failed.. The flood was a cleansing.. The Abrahamic covenant was a promise. God's plans never fail, people do.. Christ was the future, and that ultimate plan did not fail, because he is perfect in every way.
  14. At this point the sujects begun to forget an in confortbilty went back to wait for the next vicim well..about the intrusion.. pulling my positive process away from my goal an placing it on in to the feeling of going uncontrollable. Because I'm bound by certain restrictions I have to move strategically an always with peace.
  15. I thought that the whole point of the flood, was to remove "wickedness" from the world. God seems to have trouble with his plans. Why does a God -- with perfect knowledge of the future -- have difficulty with his plans? Nothing seems to work out as God expects. Adam and Eve was a plan. The Great Flood was a plan. The Covenant with Abraham was a plan. All of God's plans seem to fail. Yet he know the future. And he's all powerful. And he's perfect in every way. One more plan that went wrong. The Jews -- the people of Jesus -- were not buying what he was selling. Taking the story at face value -- maybe they knew something? When the people who run a restaurant, won't eat the food -- eat someplace else.
  16. There's a slight problem with your explanation, Dan. If all He saw was wickedness, then why spare Noah and his family? Because they were good. So good did exist before, therefore all was not wicked. But sin still survived, why? Because Noah and his family survived. Man has a tendency to lean toward sin. Why? Maybe because they were created that way? See the paradox in detail.
  17. I would like to make a distinction here. As nonbelievers -- we don't have any ill will or opposition to the Pagan world. That's because the Pagans don't get up in our faces -- and tell us that we are going to Hell.
  18. And there we go with the threats again. As I gaze into my cracked crystal ball; I can already see Dan's outraged response. It isn't a threat unless you believe it. You know. The usual two faced crap. He gets to make the threat -- except that it's not a threat. He is so predictable.
  19. Not believing now will make that second advent a very unpleasant experience. More terrorist threats. Intended to enforce submission onto the nonbeliever. How very Christian of you. Christ was not cursing the tree, but the bad figs (Israel). Interesting. Twisting Scripture into something antisemitic. Maybe the author meant it as antisemitic? Anyway -- How very Christian of you. Yes God has a temper, In the Bible, God also says that He is jealous. Shall we enumerate God's other character and personality flaws? It's all there, in the Book.
  20. Me too. It is strange coming to a no religion part of the forum and preaching religion. Dan may believe as he does but he will not get converts here
  21. And there we go with the threats again... one would think that a benevolent god would have found more persuasive means... but no. Anyway, if your god really returns and is such an ego-tripper that he needs my affirmation in advance on blind faith well... he isn’t an all good god then whom I would choose to spend the rest of eternity serving. Not even mentioning his “temper” (which is totally arbitrary too, having bears moal he one and leaving the other be). Have “fun” with him I say! (I’m with cuchulain.)
  22. The evidence came and left, but don't worry, he said "I'll be back". Not believing now will make that second advent a very unpleasant experience. " He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18) A&E freely chose evil, which is simply the result of disobedience to God.. God told them the consequences prior to their choice... God saw only wickedness in the world, the flood ended it. Sin survived, but there's also good now. The fig tree represents the nation of Israel in prophecy, Christ was not cursing the tree, but the bad figs (Israel). God has always forgiven the sin of the repentant. The sacrifice atoned for sin, the remission of sin erases our debts. Yes God has a temper, but He is patient and withholding his wrath so that even stubborn people have an opportunity to change their attitudes.
  23. At this point the sujects unwiting has already lead me to his squad, intelligent,is they hehe,we gonna find out in the upcoming virtues
  24. When all religions decided converted to the exceptance of"monies"financial transference to electronic credit transfer system throu electronic banking services that they past over your private information over to that service to best suit your needs,when this took place thing call constituency flowover takes place .this.flow brangs friendships,business partners, rivals, good guys,bad guys an every thang in between.when everyone had gotten together in affiliations without anybody realizing or not questioning or being labeled an shut down brought everyone' in to affiliation,an under new laws,the chip that's implanted upon your debit/bank card is claimed to be an decrypted security devise.the capabilities over the powers toward information is endless,,,upon learning about how many clergy are within places never expected, soch as company officials,doctors,lawyers gamers,clergy enforcement,in every field clergy every company across the planet so PayPal Xbox Sony an all the affiliations that own own us as we own them, every one will see the benefits,
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