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  2. Read...then discuss

    There are no original manuscripts of anything thousands of years old.. They rot and decay, so we're reliant on accurate copies and translations into a hundred different languages. While subtle variations exist from the KJV and New Age versions, they all essentially transmit the exact same message. Most of the existing variants aren't from corrupt manuscripts, but translation choices. The bottom line for me is that nothing can be disproved. People look for proof that its true, but have zero evidence that it isn't true. So, a person is either convinced that Christ rose from the grave, or they concoct a reason of why it didn't happen, despite hundreds of witnesses and no official explanation or record to the contrary. Its impossible to write a single paragraph on a message board to convince anyone of anything, but each must weigh the culmination of evidence to reach their own conclusion. I have found this site states the case for Christ as plainly as anything I could write, even most Atheist think he existed.
  3. Yesterday
  4. a lot is going to depend on what the couple wants.there are several different books available(send me a pm and i'll list some of them for you),as well as your personal beliefs. i follow a buddhist path,so mine tend to be in that sense.but if the couple wants something different,i will accommodate accordingly(most couples want little to no "religion"from me so it is not a problem).
  5. Cold wash cold rinse

    I think it's both. This is why scientists like double blind studies. So that expectation and desire won't change the objective results.
  6. Read...then discuss

    My reasoning tells me that a perfect being, with a perfect message, would find a way. We are talking about God. The All Powerful and All knowing. Maybe not a perfect book, but a perfect transmission. Or, we could have the world that we have. The world that would exist, if the perfect being had not been involved. Of course, the All Powerful One could be crazy. Or not good. Or devious. Or a trickster. Or have a seriously awful sense of humor. Or be mean.
  7. Enemies

    It simplifies things to open a Bible and see what it actually says. Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations No. Jesus was not a pacifist.
  8. Recycle bin of life

    Not yet. Be patient. Better yet, be "quick".
  9. Enemies

    Sweet.... If all Christians were extreme pacifist, there probably wouldn't be any Christians.. Perhaps you missed the Old Testament? 1. God commanded Israel to go to war, and to kill. 2. God never changes morally. 3. Jesus is God. 4. Extreme pacifism forces a person to reject violence for any reason. 5. It is impossible to support killing and be an extreme pacifist Ergo, Jesus was not an extreme pacifist Do you really think that if someone was killing Mary, Jesus would have been content to sit by and watch his mother be murdered? I don't, in fact I'd interpret that as condoning evil (sin), but stopping it would be overcoming evil with good. Those who are kind to the cruel, will be cruel to the kind.. Matthew 5 was an explanation of the spirit of the law, turning the other cheek was an idiom that meant not to return evil for evil, but to turn away, not perpetuate a problem by letting an offense go when possible, and not retaliating every time your offended. I believe vengeance is God's, but protection and self-preservation is ours. That's my interpretation.. To assert that I'm distorting words is to suggest I'm just conveniently twisting scripture to fit what I want it to say, which is why I haven't plucked out an offensive eye or cut off my right arm.
  10. Read...then discuss

    Thx for the clarification.... sometimes I am slow on the uptake. Your explanation makes sense now that I read it again in that context. Your point is valid and much appreciated von
  11. Hi Rev Sam, Welcome! I was curious how reverends get their ideas for wedding services, and readings (especially for a non-Christian couple). Do you have any books or references you use for marriages or other religious services? I've never performed a public wedding or religious service and I"m looking for ideas. Have a good weekend!
  12. Read...then discuss

    I was partially on topic...we were discussing the written word vs the spoken. We were debating the differences in biblical works, whether the message had been changed or not, as relates to the changes present in vocal works. The last piece could be seen to be directed at the poster, and probably is perceived that way. It was not intended to be any more than an observation that we are all ignorant of the original manuscripts of the bible, since they haven't been found. Apologies if it came off negatively towards someone in particular.
  13. Cold wash cold rinse

    I don't mind being wrong. It helps me to learn. I was reading something recently, but I can't remember what. In any case, it was discussing people who view reality as absolute, vs people who view reality as subjective to the beholder. I began to think maybe reality is simply both at the same time. Maybe there is an objective reality, and maybe there is also a subjective reality that impacts it. I don't say impacts it to the point of being able to do away with it or rewrite it, but impacts in some manner.
  14. Cold wash cold rinse

    You are wrong. If your parents are alive, they are also wrong. In point of fact, everyone you love, everyone you respect, everyone you trust, and everyone you believe is wrong. But, hey, so am I. I base this Declaration of Wrongitude on two assumed facts- Objective reality exists, and all humans experience that reality in a limited and imperfect way. In other words, Truth exists and we are bad at seeing it. So you are wrong. But nobody likes being wrong, in the same way that nobody likes being a loser. This makes us averse to looking directly at our wrongness. We minimize it, gloss over it, and put it in a convenient context that makes it seem insignificant. We externalize it, we blame it on others, we chalk it up to a learning experience, and we insist that the important point is that the other guy is way more wrong than we are. Yet we are wrong, and the most efficient way to improve is to face that fact and try to change it- to admit we are wrong and work on being less wrong in the future. Please note that I don't cite this as a cure for being wrong. We will always be wrong. Being wrong doesn't mean we can't also be right.
  15. Read...then discuss

    I too have wondered this for a very long time. Why in the world did the divine being need the message recorded at all? An eternal being creating worshipers could easily have installed the message in the hardwiring or something. If you did have to have "go between" people retelling the message because for some reason I can not comprehend. Why as the maker of all things - would you not just keep the message clear and simple so imperfect creations would be able to do what you wish them to do? If you give them freewill to make it a matter of choice (or some sort of proving ground) then why make reading a big long tomb as the ultimate and only way to know the rules and penalties. I am fairly certain all of this ends in the word faith. Things that can be explained are explained. Anything that is a jump in logic or a disconnect of reason or an impossibility to science is a matter of faith. And for those who find this way helpful - so be it.....I know a large number of believers who are really decent and kind people so it is working for them. I am happy it is - it makes the world better to have joyous, nice and kind people however they get to that place. But I have often pondered the need for the book at all. Equally moral people - living to the same standards in life - some have never a seen a book much less this book - and still - they live exemplary lives. Fascinating point you raised. von
  16. Read...then discuss

    We humans are odd creatures. Full of walking paradoxes to be sure. I don't really buy into the concept of sin. But full appreciate the sentiments your express. Been there (way to often in life) - thankfully the wheel turns and eventually we wear down the obstacles. The Grand Canyon in all its splendor - emerged from individual drops of water at a time ebbing away what was - into what is. So too with us.....eventually our path gets smoother (right up till we stumble over the next rock) .... (or frustrating moment) von
  17. Read...then discuss

    AND THE ANSWER IS: NO BODY. Nobody is EVER considered least not in this FORUM. That is my conclusion based on reading this FORUM more than (10) years. We learn from what is said (and how it is said) - what is omitted, what is repeated like a broken record, who rises to the occasion, who never apologizes.... and so it goes. NO ONE is ignorant and all of us are capable of learning something from every post and every poster. Back to the topic folks....note: THE TOPIC (not fellow posters) if you please. von
  18. Read...then discuss

    is a persons life not difficult enough without us placing roadblocks in each others paths? deliberately making someones journey more difficult should be a sin i think.
  19. Read...then discuss

    How did this portion of your posting facilitate understanding of the topic? I might be showing my ignorance but I am willing to do that if it helps me to understand why that was useful, necessary or even relevant to include this sentence in making your point? Thank you von
  20. Recycle bin of life

    Dear Von Noble; I love your response to the door people, LOL, recycle is good! We have a sign on our door that says "A Joyous Officiant" we do weddings at the house and elopements. What amazes me is how many people still knock and must not understand the term "Officiant" at least that is the benefit of the doubt I'm giving them . The J.W.s hold there annual convention in our town in Jan. so we get a lot of door knockers around that time, the sign helps but some from some local Christian church's also will just leave a pamphlet which does get recycled. I like your out look and appreciate the laugh.
  21. Greeting RevSam, glad you are here! I have to say I'm old school Star Trek but Spock was shall always be, my fav! Live long and prosper!
  22. Read...then discuss

    you can compare lies against the ORIGINAL letter but not the hand transcribed one if you dont have access to the author. so show the original writings of Corinthians and let's see all the changes....oh wait, we only have hand copies. okay, let's interview the transcriber...oh wait, they were anonymous... how do we know it was accurate again? but really, you debating that it's not been changed is ludicrous. read kjv then niv Corinthians 13 13 for 100% proof of change. but you still refuse to admit it? now who is ignorant?
  23. Read...then discuss

    my ignorance may be there. but what of the ignorance of the masses of people who know even less, even though God allegedly wants them to understand his perfect message? why, if you can, wouldn't you make your message clear for everyone?
  24. Enemies

    The Bible is an extremely complex work and, on a literal level, it is extremely self-contradictory. It is very easy for two honest and intelligent people to read it and walk away with very different understandings of its meaning. With almost any other book, those interpretational differences would just be seen as an interesting window into the different ways we process nonliteral infirmation. But Biblical interpretation differences tend to get treated like personal insults. So when I tell someone that the Sermon on the Mount reads like a pacifist manifesto, nine times oit of ten they react as if I told them their grandfather was a Nazi.
  25. Enemies

    If that's what you got from the reading, either you have a reading comprehension problem or you've intentionally distorted the words to fit what you want them to say. God save the world from "Christians " like you...
  26. Recycle bin of life

    ,,,, its all over my head
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