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About Key

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    Spiritual Pilgrim
  • Birthday 11/15/1964

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  1. To be fair, Jonathan, not all Christian churches have either a cross, or replication of Christ crucified displayed to pray or worship before. Some even hold that such imagery may become idolatry. Not all, just some.
  2. Key

    Godly Love

    I think you mean discern, not divide. It was meant to unite the faithful, not divide them. One shift in a single word's interpretation makes a huge difference, as do entire passages.
  3. You're welcome. Though I, myself, am neither an atheist, nor an agnostic, since I do believe there is something more, but can't prove it, either, I do also believe others may choose what they do believe, as well. It gets as much tiresome to argue the point for you, as it does for me to continuously read the same debate waged time and again across many threads with the same information circulated just as repetitiously supplied. Much like many screws being continuously drilled into a board until their heads are stripped. Board is always there, the screws no longer make much difference to whether it is loose or secure anymore. But somehow, I am always hopeful something will change. I guess I am more overly optimistic, than I am an analytical skeptic.
  4. Yes, but somehow they usually seem to get lumped together with atheist in an argument based on belief, inevitably. Regrettable.
  5. Dan, atheism is not about belief, at all. It's about acceptance of evidence. As you say, no evidence that God doesn't exist, but that doesn't necessarily leave the option that He does, as there is no evidence of that, either. For an atheist, just as the label implies, they accept that God does not exist based on no evidence. They would not be atheist, otherwise, would they? No. Again, as I said before, should evidence arise for them that He does, certainly their view would change. I might also argue that the "evidence" Jonathan provided to you is to you what you cite Scripture as "evidence" is to him. Perspective, you know?
  6. Key

    Godly Love

    Sorry, Dan, as much as I hate to admit it, this is very debatable, even to this day, which has also lead to divisions within the faith, as well.
  7. Well, that was kinda interesting. Long winded for me, but interesting.
  8. Your question and answer, both in the same paragraph, Dan. Evidence is key to their acceptance of a conclusion.
  9. I understand your deep frustrations. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt. It seems to me, and I may be wrong, even far off base, that he may have some difficulty in relating to not using faith in some way to accept a conclusion. For him, all the "isms" deal with some form of faith. I think atheism, itself, isn't about having faith, but rather about acceptance of evidence or lack thereof, to base any conclusion. I hope I have at least understood your perspective a little bit, or enough to draw a conclusion close enough to be nearly correct.
  10. No, Dan, it isn't exactly trust in their cognitive reasoning, nor faith in any conclusions. Merely acceptance of evidence given to them to confirm truth, one way or the other. Should the divine provide it with certainty, I have no doubt they would accept it, then believe it. Btw, I'm not attacking you over this, should you feel that way. I am simply making an observation as an outsider gleaning information from the debates I've witnessed.
  11. Dan, you still seem to be missing the point. There is no belief of an atheist. An atheist thinking is dependent upon the evidence they are provided. It is based on evidence or lack thereof that renders their mind to be right. That requires NO faith, just proof or lack of it. Thinking requires no faith, only deductive reasoning. This is what they have been trying to tell you many times, if I have been interpreting them correctly. Have I?
  12. As I've had a similar discussion in another thread, there are some Christians who point this out as pertaining to the Old Testament. But there are others who argue that the laws of Old may still pertain to Christians, as well, citing His own words of, "I have not come to abolish the laws, rather to fulfill them", which may mean their faith must follow God's commandments just as the Hebrews must. Thoughts?
  13. Key

    The future

    Okay. But my original response still stands. Jonestown did not start as a "suicide" cult. It only became that in the very end.
  14. Key

    Godly Love

    Sorry, Dan, but this explanation still makes little sense to me. How could a mere display be a ploy to "disrupt" something that couldn't possibly have been impeded? That would require those faithful to the holiday to simply stop observing it. Not seeing that happening, do you?
  15. Key

    The future

    But it didn't start that way, by a long shot. Virtually none ever do. And, btw, consider this, at one time, every religion may have been considered a sort of cult until it gained acceptance of a greater populace.