VonNoble

respect, dignity and grace

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Is every human automatically entitled to respect?   

Must it be earned?

How is respect lost?   Is it ever lost?   Is it  a constant?  An entitlement?

Can we all agree we know it when we see it?  Or is that yet one more

intangible in society?  Are there guidelines that clearly note respect?

 

Dignity is the birthright of every human?

Does one give up dignity?   Is it taken by force?

Does an individual claim dignity or does the outside world define that for each? 

Is it an internal manifestation generated or an outward cloak bestowed?

 

Does every human posses the intangible of grace to give or award to others?

Is offering grace the same as being gracious?

Does every human have a reserve of grace?

From whence does grace originate?  Is it an invisible force or an outward behavior/ trait? 

Is it spiritual or behavioral? 

Amazing grace saves us or impinges us? 

 

Pick and choose - my mind is muddled this morning

(well even more so than normal)

 

von

 

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I don't know if every human is entitles to respect, or dignity...but I consider myself worth enough that I should always give respect and dignity to others.  I think if I failed to give another person respect, I would feel badly about myself.

Edited by cuchulain

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we should be respectful of others,and to treat each other accordingly.

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Greetings to you my brother,

 

One of the cardinal beliefs of my faith is that all people, no matter who they are or what they may or may not have done with their lives are entitled to be treated with the dignity and respect of a child of God.  

 

Now granted, there are times and circumstances where this is very difficult to put this belief into practice.  In my time working in prisons, I came to know a very few people who were so dangerous that they had to be confined and yes forfeited their right to liberty.  But even in circumstances like that, people should be afforded as many rights and as much dignity as possible so that they are reminded that they too are children of God and can find redemption.  It is those who have no hope and see themselves as less then human that become the most dangerous of people.

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

 

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Rev. Calli,

Ah!   working in prisons.....there is a whole different type of ministry! 

Thank you for your time invested. 

 

I found often the connect with those in prison was

proposing to them that  YOU GOTTA do good to feel good .

..do better to feel better

....at least at that place and time it seemed to provide motivation in that world. 

 

They had heard all the traditional stuff and rejected it so we had to enter

with some sort of new information in order to reach in to them. 

 

Nothing was as strange to me as watching the group handling quiet 

meditation and growing because of what THEY came to understand

about themselves. 

 

Hopefully both approaches helped them to believe they deserved respect. 

Doesn't everyone?   Perhaps we will hear an example that would indicate

that is not a universal requirement.    I am always widening my view after

reading postings from others. 

 

thx

 

von

 

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On 8/31/2017 at 0:29 PM, mark 45 said:

we should be respectful of others,and to treat each other accordingly.

 

Mark 45,

You got me thinking (as you so often do) (thank you) ....does respect 

(and even dignity) begin with our giving it to others.....or giving it to 

ourselves FIRST ?  

 

Now that you got me thinking about it I am wondering if our respect for

others is somehow association with our respect of self?

 

von

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For the sake of further muddying the waters, let me say that I think everyone deserves to be treated with respect even though not everyone deserves to be respected yet.

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6 hours ago, VonNoble said:

 

Mark 45,

You got me thinking (as you so often do) (thank you) ....does respect 

(and even dignity) begin with our giving it to others.....or giving it to 

ourselves FIRST ?  

 

Now that you got me thinking about it I am wondering if our respect for

others is somehow association with our respect of self?

 

von

brother kaman and meredog both make good points,but i cannot multiquote and make it work.

 

yes i do believe it starts with us,but as brother kaman said,we can't give what may not have(ie:self respect).and as meredog said"not everyone deserves to be respected".if i find someone who proves that,i just don't have any further dealings with them.

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3 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

It is hard to give something one does not possess.

 

Would offering it - help one to cultivate it I wonder?    You made an excellent point there! 

thx

 

von

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2 hours ago, mererdog said:

For the sake of further muddying the waters, let me say that I think everyone deserves to be treated with respect even though not everyone deserves to be respected yet.

 

Ha!   As if ...(as if one could make my mind more clouded than I do my own self) :rolleyes:

 

So, am I to understand that everyone deserves it - even though possibly not automatically?

They should earn it?    Perhaps I didn't understand that when I read it. 

 

Then again maybe I did.    So it goes with a muddled mind. 

 

My mother (if ever there was a saint it was my mom - FOR SURE) - she always said we

are to give respect even when not earned because that person might need it most.

Mom was rarely wrong.  (According to her that would be corrected to NEVER wrong) but

she had a sense of humor and would laugh when she said it. )

 

Just for fun - one time I was indignant as a grades-schooler and telling her that

I had pulled a fast one one someone...and ended with :  "I am not as dumb as I look!"

 

My loving mother replied:   You couldn't be !!!

 

She chuckled for hours at her joke at my expense - it became one of her

favorites to retell.  Somehow when it was her telling it - I never minded and laughed

right along with her. 

 

Thx for joining in ...I am still sorting all of this out in my mind.

 

von

 

 

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Respecting people is a great idea.  The truth is, there are a lot of people that I don't respect, for various reasons.  No matter how much the truth stinks, it is still truth.  It's not in me to pretend respecting others -- when I don't.  I also don't love everybody.  

 

:mellow:

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20 hours ago, VonNoble said:

So, am I to understand that everyone deserves it - even though possibly not automatically?

I think that respect is a feeling, and talking in terms of how people "should" feel is kinda pointless. The notion that people deserve you to feel a certain way is sort of a weird notion, no? But just as certain acts will make me angry at you, certain acts will make me respect you. "Earned" is a bad way to put it, but its hard to move away from phrasing that common...

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3 hours ago, mererdog said:

I think that respect is a feeling, and talking in terms of how people "should" feel is kinda pointless. The notion that people deserve you to feel a certain way is sort of a weird notion, no? But just as certain acts will make me angry at you, certain acts will make me respect you. "Earned" is a bad way to put it, but its hard to move away from phrasing that common...

 

Respect can also be lost.     

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40 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Respect can also be lost.     

 

'Reputation: It arrives on foot but departs on horseback'

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Respecting people is a great idea.  The truth is, there are a lot of people that I don't respect, for various reasons.  No matter how much the truth stinks, it is still truth.  It's not in me to pretend respecting others -- when I don't.  I also don't love everybody.  

 

:mellow:

 

....had to chuckle at that...yes, you are right the truth sometimes stink but remains unaltered...

 

I am not sure that lacking respect is one and the same with faking respect.   It could be...but sometimes

not so.   I can disagree without being disagreeable.   I can withhold respect without losing civility.

 

Also I can extend respect even when I KNOW the other person knows they are not entitled to it.

It says something about me (it could be fakery) or it could go right back to being the first one

to open the door to better next step....maybe...sometimes.

 

Still your point is well made. 

 

von

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4 hours ago, mererdog said:

I think that respect is a feeling, and talking in terms of how people "should" feel is kinda pointless. The notion that people deserve you to feel a certain way is sort of a weird notion, no? But just as certain acts will make me angry at you, certain acts will make me respect you. "Earned" is a bad way to put it, but its hard to move away from phrasing that common...

 

re: the notion that people deserve to feel a certain way is sort of weird.....YES....at one level that is absolutely true. 

 

However, along with that enters the notion of expectation.  You arrive to every interaction with your bag

of expectations as do they. 

 

At times people are clueless how they are perceived. The more clueless they are - sometimes the higher their

expectation that they are correct, brilliant or on par with you .

 At which times YOUR VIEW might clearly not be aligned with that. 

 

They might not do a darn thing to make you respect them - or in fact fuel the fire to make 

it difficult to even be anywhere near their toxic self (if it goes extreme in your judgement) - still - where does

your ability to rise above your comfort in the interaction - enter? 

 

If they KNOW they did not earn your respect,

does it reveal as much about you as it does about them?

 

You may be aware of their expectation that you will respect (or like them) ...they may not get at all 

that your feelings run contrary to that expectation.....OR....you may clearly signal to them that

they "got it wrong".....

 

When interacting with someone I can offer respect because it is the proper response.

I can withhold quietly with a good poker face.  Or I can clearly signal they are NOT 

respected by me.   The choice in reaction is mine.

Which ever way I chose  - I am holding the cards.  I am also setting the stage for any

future interaction. 

 

My reactions might not have to live up to their expectations.  

But probably my reactions should live up to mine. 

Which sometimes might allow another to save face, keep them in doubt, or allow them to 

remain blissfully ignorant of the cards I am holding.   Sometimes

 

von

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56 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

'Reputation: It arrives on foot but departs on horseback'

 

EXCELLENT 

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I do my best to treat everyone respectfuly but that does not mean I respect everyone. When a person comes into my life for the first time, they are at zero on my respect scale. Without fail they will either teach me to respect them or teach me they are a waste of my time. Since I have been retired, it is wonderful to exercise my freedom of association.

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32 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

My reactions might not have to live up to their expectations.  

But probably my reactions should live up to mine. 

This is why I tried to draw a distinction between respecting someone and treating them with respect. Just as anger is not an excuse for violence, lack of respect is not an excuse to treat people disrespectfully. Although it should go without saying that opinions on what qualifies as disrespectful treatment will vary widely...

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