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Everything posted by VonNoble

  1. If anyone wants to join in.... my philosophy class team completed the following today. It took 80 minutes.... we were the second to last group to finish. List at at least eight (no more than ten) components that comprise a “good life” Every component you list must be justified by at least two reasons why it is necessary for a good life. The components you select are not unique to any country or culture. Anyone care to jump in and name one or two....and why (the sample provided listed education as a component.... my group did not accept that as valid) von
  2. Quiz-one topic

    ANY culture that permits slavery is morally flawed. Support your conclusion. von
  3. Numbers to a “good life”

    Merriment is good!
  4. Numbers to a “good life”

    I presume this very enthused professor is fully aware on a room full of newbies ....that none of us would remotely catch structure issues. A third of our group is worried about this class as they are scholarship recipients and unlike their other classes related to their major(where they are far more comfortable and interested) .... this classes had them anxious. Another third is reasonably assured of passing with a “c” or higher and not too concerned (serious whatever attitude).... and rest are VERY lost. None of us ever considered the work problems were “engineered” for a stacked deck. We pretty much are just racing the clock with any answer right now .... deep think is not happening for any of us thanks for the thought .... maybe by June we will have mastered which way is up... von
  5. Numbers to a “good life”

    What a GREAT belly laugh this morning! THANKS! I fear you are exactly correct von
  6. Numbers to a “good life”

    I rather enjoyed your support of the beauty and money issues. Since we had to keep the components universal....we could not come up with any place risk free of environmental issues.... so shelter got put in and taken off the list a couple of times.... your wider view is helpful. Next class all of the groups will have to merge our lists into one perfect list. I am sort of wondering what the entire class together voted for.... what did the larger group of 20-something’s decide... von
  7. Numbers to a “good life”

    ....oh....I forgot pie ! von
  8. Numbers to a “good life”

    Thanks for the candor. I really liked the Spock quote. The group did add morality as a a critical component. (And quoted Yoda from Star Wars).....it was something about “the forces” and avoiding the temptation of the dark side. That was as close as we got for spirituality as a component. i was surprised food, shelter, and beauty did not make the list. I argued for beauty but it was not in the majority. I argued hard against money....and we dropped it but not till the last ten minutes. von
  9. Numbers to a “good life”

    I gotta say I am not enjoying this class as much as I had hoped. The group got pretty bogged down on “freedom”.... half the group was adamant that is one of the components. But they struggled to give a concrete reason. The majority vote narrowed it to free will instead. The one one I did not expect was “ a sense of humor”.... von
  10. Quiz-one topic

    I am okay with all of that thanks. It just seemed for awhile in this thread that there were absolutes eluding me. I am okay with not having an answer for every question. Thanks for taking the time to respond. von
  11. Quiz-one topic

    Okay...simply put... two questions 1. Is free will a state of mind or a physical option or other 2). If we are born with free will in a nutshell when is our situation “not” free will I lied)....sorry ... there is a third question.......if it boils down to choices-what happens when you can’t find one? von
  12. Quiz-one topic

    Ah! The example helped me to understand the point. Thank you. von
  13. Quiz-one topic

    This is my question too. I do not yet have an anwser. If I am forced to live did I I’d do I have free will choice? von
  14. Quiz-one topic

    So free will is mental not physical? We can think freely but not act freely? von
  15. Quiz-one topic

    It seems some of the Jewish women were herded into concentration camps (so free will to survive kicked in enough they chose not get shot getting on the trains to the camps) (they did not know what they faced or in some cases even that they were going to camps.) Once they arrived at the camps. ....some of them (a few) were impregnated solely for the purpose of experimentation. They were never going to be allowed to carry their "Jew-blood babies) to term. These women were raped.....and once deemed to be pregnant ....some tied into beds - if necessary force fed....and poked and prodded all the way to full term.) Once these forced to term women went into labor - a fully developed child tried to emerge as nature intended. A fully developed human might be endowed with free-will.... a biologically an emerging infant is fully human by most definitions - (so there is a question of free will and would exist at this stage of development)...back to the facts - so here this kid is - finding its way to the air-breathing world. One of the many horrors these woman were restrained (physically) - so that the baby could NOT emerge. It would not and could not be permitted to exit.....ending in the death of both mother and child. For hours (noted by the doctors watching the experiment) - for hours on occasion - the mothers struggled against the restraints to force an opening wide enough of the child to emerge. For hours sometimes the infants struggle to be free of the mother's body. All observers kept notes.....and watched the two struggling. Now there are far fewer instinctive responses stronger than birthing of a child. Both bodies were physically denied a choice. Both died fighting for life. A life not conceived freely. A life forced into existence. A life nurtured for months to full development. Sometimes people try to die. Try to starve to death. Try to entice death to them. Try to force a shot to the head. And sometimes they are just forced to live. There is little free will in being FORCED to live. We do not allow anyone the right to die - in some cases now. In some cases in suburbia - we force people to live who freely choose to die. Does free will cease when you are FORCED to live? In the horror of the concentration camp....did either the mother or the child actually HAVE a choice to select that horrid death? Did they have free will to live? If you chose torture over death and they do a bit too much water boarding - although you are choosing to live and struggle to breath - did you have free will in choosing death? Some do...they gulp in the water to end the madness. But some fight to breath and cannot....and they die trying so hard to exercise their free will to LIVE....the one where they chose a life of torture ....which is clearly choosing life - but alas! They are killed by an over zealot torture person. Did they then have free will after all? von
  16. As I have shared, I returned to college last semester. Not so much that I need to pick up another degree - more because I enjoy learning. The younger generation there have some definite things to teach me (in addition to how to use my smart phone that does more things than I imagined a phone would ever do.) This semester - I decided to add a general 100 level philosophy course to my schedule. I have NEVER had a single philosophy class in any of my formal schooling. I have not read much about it. It is COMPLETELY new to me. I sat through the VERY long (time wise as no one expects a FULL lecture day one) first introductory overview. The professor is young, enthused and a very good speaker. The way they will teach this course (peer review, group learning IN CLASS) etc. is very new to me and I enjoy learning a new way to learn. All good. At the end of the class - the professor made an impassioned argument FOR PHILOSOPHY. Among the highlights were the results of lots of studies that indicate philosophy majors score better on graduate entrance exams (which seemed only relevant to me if one wanted to take a grad school entrance exam) (I got the major point that logic learned would be helpful but the ONLY example was grad school which probably lacked appeal to many in the room)....also that LONG AGO philosophy was the spring board of what we now know as OTHER sciences. Philosophy lead to the evolution into mathematics, physics and such. NOW TO THE QUESTION milling around in my brain. According to this introductory lesson - apparently I am quite remiss in never having studied philosophy till now. Either we ALL should be learning it in kindergarten to have had "better" lives. OR.....the world would be a better place by now if we had been trained to use these tools before we entered the workforce. OR...... Philosophers really irk the rest of the world and don't produce much that we need as all of the philosophers in history didn't feed or raise funds for much of anything (I gleaned that due to the vibrant defense of an attack never made by anyone in class so it must be residual defensiveness from years of being attacked by others accusing philosophy majors of not contributing anything but ideas. ) So......should we start teaching philosophy in grade school? Would we be a better world if everyone used these thinking tools in society? I have no clue - that is why I am taking the class. von
  17. Wisdom Lovers United (or untied)

    Apparently I am not the only dunderhead in this class. They are pushing back the date on our next test. Lots of people are confused by...1) the formulas 2) the explanation (the lesson) 3)the prof wants to watch the Olympics and not do the test till the are over 4) OTHER I have no idea why but it gives me a couple more days to sort this out Score one for technology.... the decision was made over the weekend... and so we were not surprised by the change of scheduling. It was nice to have advanced warning allow everyone better use if their time. von
  18. Quiz-one topic

    On a related note... I heard on the radio today a group of detainees is suing the United States for being used to do forced labor with no compensation. If the premise defines slavery as the determining factor upon which we are defined as morally flawed.... that is a twist for us in the here and now. Some would view forced labor without compensation as a form of slavery perhaps.... von
  19. Quiz-one topic

    Interesting analysis.... thx von
  20. The self is not to blame.... .....the choice is to blame ? von
  21. Quiz-one topic

    Perhaps our class was flummoxed by the premise. I was. I am reasonably sure no one in the room supported slavery. The questioned was asking (at least to me) ....do I judge the entire culture as morally flawed solely on the issue of them permitting slavery? That I the only thing we know. We do not know who they enslave or why? We do not know the history or the possibility of eventual freedom options for said slaves. For all we know they were a gift enslaved and given by their own people. We do not know (for sure) if the treatment is humane. If life is even remotely better than what they left. We do not know what good this culture slaveholders offers.... we know nothing beyond this one fact. In this culture there exists a group not free. Why? We were being asked to judge a culture. (Not a country) in only one known fact. I am not sure one fact is enough to render judgement (for me)......that being said it might well be enough for another to come to a conclusion. I can see that worked too. Noting an entire group is morally flawed without knowing the reason why they chose this (to me offensive morally behavior )was difficult. I prefer to understand before assigning condemnation. This seemed to be true for for many in the class. Even when the action clearly violates our view of normal. i was sort of encouraged that many were trying to understand what would make anyone think such a thing is right.... von
  22. Wisdom Lovers United (or untied)

    THANKS!!!! At least I don’t feel like I am rowing alone... von
  23. Quiz-one topic

    One student argued we are all slaves (not endearing himself by calling the professor the slave master. ) Another argued with him (down a fresh set of one way tracks) that we are all slaves to electronics or money. Another suggested slavery could be justified if you needed to save your own children.... if it were your only viable means to feed your own kids Yet another pointed to the nation of Austrialia as a point of origin ....noting not only prisoners worked to going the nation, but also indentured servants....who were forced to labor. In his version of things they likely faired better than dying in a jail cell in London. Another likened the plains Indians going on rading parties to bring home unrelated women to insure the did not mate with bloodlines too close to their own....as a form of enslavement common to all tribes. With no buying or selling involved. But enslavement nonetheless. And perhaps culturally necessary. Or any race who chooses to bring home foreign children to raise as their own to perpetuate the tribes numbers....kidnaps as a form of survival. And one last speaker noted after a nuclear blast .... was fertile people (non-sterile after radiation) would be coveted and be needed to reproduce ...which would insure they would be bought and sold. Whew. My head hurt for awhile after that class i came home and napped. It was both necessary and sufficient von
  24. Wisdom Lovers United (or untied)

    Actually these examples ARE helpful...I am going on line to take a practice test in a short while.... maybe it will build my confidence. von
  25. Wisdom Lovers United (or untied)

    Thank you....I KNOW I have to know this... but when they assign it as a mathematical formula with p and q bouncing around the sentences it muddles it a bit. One sentence used a double negative ....with all the p and q stuff and it took me awhile (too long) to sort it out (THAT quiz was timed) I do appreciate thd assist. von