What do you do...?

[Cornelius]

Over the many years in which I have participated and moderated this forum I have seen many people evolve and change their beliefs considerably, myself included. Which I believe is natural and even expected. So I decided to open a topic to discuss this and feel free to answer all or none of these questions. They are more a guideline to illustrate what the topic is about rather than a questionnaire. 

What do you do when your beliefs seem to change over time?

Do you cling to your previous beliefs?

What if your current worldview or belief system no longer reflects your current beliefs?

Do you update or change the system at all?

How do you feel about those who have previously held strong beliefs but have changed over time (not talking in a flaky manner such as overnight multiple times a month or so)?

If you have or had a strong belief system but you find it no longer suits you do you rough it out and for how long?

Do you feel that others who return to previously held worldviews or systems are insincere? 

Basically I'm wondering how you personally evaluate these things and your views on yourself and/or others. Some people for instance may see returning to a system as going backwards while others may acknowledge that it isn't exactly a linear progression and it is perfectly fine to revisit previous beliefs.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Stormbringer

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I've had a lifetime of philosophic drift.  Back and forth and round about.  It's part of life.  Experience accumulates.  Perspective shifts.  Sometimes it's growth.  Sometimes, it's exhaustion.  

[Dan56]

If a person drifts from belief to belief, they are in a continual search for answers, and aren't yet satisfied. When you find what your looking for,  there's no reason to constantly change what you believe. " Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. " (Hebrews 13:8). I never sought a belief that suited my world view, I needed something far beyond that.

[Key]

My beliefs have varied little bits at a time, according to whatever facts and information I have learned over the years. It is a constant lesson of truth to adapt to its discovery and whether to accept it or not.

[cuchulain]

i was a druid and am now an atheist.  the change built slowly for me.  i have always argued and debated christianity, but rarely did i apply the same logic to my own beliefs and i often found myself arguing from the atheist perspective, so i reevaluated my druidry piece by piece using the same standard and realized it was just as hokey as others i had thought of as wackos.  when that happened i tried to find variations that made sense and couldn't.  but i did find stoicism, which seemed to be a philosophy of logic after i discarded the idea of logos.  i had trouble switching only because of my own naiveté.

[mark 45]

11 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I've had a lifetime of philosophic drift.  Back and forth and round about.  It's part of life.  Experience accumulates.  Perspective shifts.  Sometimes it's growth.  Sometimes, it's exhaustion.  

jonathon says it better than i can.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, cuchulain said:

i was a druid and am now an atheist.  the change built slowly for me.  i have always argued and debated christianity, but rarely did i apply the same logic to my own beliefs and i often found myself arguing from the atheist perspective, so i reevaluated my druidry piece by piece using the same standard and realized it was just as hokey as others i had thought of as wackos.  when that happened i tried to find variations that made sense and couldn't.  but i did find stoicism, which seemed to be a philosophy of logic after i discarded the idea of logos.  i had trouble switching only because of my own naiveté.

 

That's the confusion.  We don't switch.  We discover that the change has already occurred.  Nothing left but to change the label.  

[Joyful]

Beautiful topic!  I say this as change in ones life can be beautiful if you allow it flow from within!  I have evolved or changed different beliefs most of my life, Christian, Buddhist, Pentecostal, Metaphysical.  Each time I embraced the change and had to reconcile within my self how the beliefs all messed or meshed together LOL.  Change is not easy for most people and I am still trying to educate my spouse that being Metaphysical does not mean I'm a witch and gave up on Jesus.   Just because I have a Sun Wand and lots of crystals I use, hey its just my path!  

All I have learned over the years have lifted me up to be the person I am today.  I do regret some of what I have said in the past, but dont we all?  The path I am on now some call New Thought, I call it Old Thought re born!   

I may change beliefs and labels but I am still me and if you know me, you know I evolve all the time.  Same can be said of our jobs in the so called real work, from factor worker, to insurance agent, to customer service rep to claims processor to legal secretary to Officiant and now Author.   

Enjoy your journey and never be afraid to grow and change!  Love and Light!

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Joyful said:

Beautiful topic!  I say this as change in ones life can be beautiful if you allow it flow from within!  I have evolved or changed different beliefs most of my life, Christian, Buddhist, Pentecostal, Metaphysical.  Each time I embraced the change and had to reconcile within my self how the beliefs all messed or meshed together LOL.  Change is not easy for most people and I am still trying to educate my spouse that being Metaphysical does not mean I'm a witch and gave up on Jesus.   Just because I have a Sun Wand and lots of crystals I use, hey its just my path!  

All I have learned over the years have lifted me up to be the person I am today.  I do regret some of what I have said in the past, but dont we all?  The path I am on now some call New Thought, I call it Old Thought re born!   

I may change beliefs and labels but I am still me and if you know me, you know I evolve all the time.  Same can be said of our jobs in the so called real work, from factor worker, to insurance agent, to customer service rep to claims processor to legal secretary to Officiant and now Author.   

Enjoy your journey and never be afraid to grow and change!  Love and Light!

Yes.  That is where the conflict comes in.  The inner path changes.  The outer path -- or at least the label for the outer path -- stays the same.  Our nearest and dearest know where we were -- but not where we are.  This is our life.  So much more than our "spiritual" or "religious" path.  Real lives change.  

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[ChristLight]

I find my beliefs come from experiencing different beliefs first hand. I seem to investigate beliefs deeply to see if it feels right for me. For example I had a deeply rooted Catholic upbringing and continued with extensive studies and teaching Catholic doctrine. Then I went to a New Age School to learn what they knew. I think I must been the student from hell though, as I sat in my first Reiki class, with my arms and ankles folded. They asked how I was doing. I told them I was here to learn Reiki, not to have them mess with my theology. Shows you what I knew then. Still I wanted to learn about other belief systems. I couldn't help but notice that I was in classes with every type of Christian, Buddhist, atheist, and beliefs I could not identify at that school. After that I got so into New Age everything.

 

I did find allowing myself to change my religious practices painful at first. There was this uncomfortable period of time. I wondered if it was it safe to do this. But even thought I was scared, I continued on, because that was the only way to move forward.

 

For me, having learned so much about so many religions, I find going back to being Christian makes the most sense for me. However, it think Catholics have it wrong. I think I liked the feeling of spiritual nostalgia. When I retired, I went to every church in my hometown area to see what they were doing. Some ministers still yell and demean their congregations. Some danced in the isles, and sold items right inside the church. The Catholic ones were arrogant. So here I am, back again, back in the ULC Seminary and back to my online ministry.

 

To your questions, I think so much of this is semantics. After studying different religions for years, I find that sometimes we call the same thing, like God, by different names, like a multi-faceted diamond. It is all one diamond with many different reflections. I realize that some religions do not believe in God at all. That's different. No judgment here, just different.

 

Currently I am studying the apocryphal books: The Books of Enoch, and the many books included in the Nag Hammadi Scriptures, which got thrown out, from what I can tell, because they didn't like that they told how we humans were created partly with the good seed of the Good God of heaven, Father of Jesus; and partly with the seed of a fallen creation, Yaldaboath. I think in 300-400 ad, the Church Fathers combined the evil God and the Good God together, so that now people worship the fallen God without even knowing that. Even Jesus tried telling the people of his time this fact in John 8:44 when he says his Father is not our Father, that our father is the devil. It is one thing if people choose to worship Satan, but I think well meaning Christians ought to know what really happened.

 

Still, I do fell the struggle with the spiritual growth process. It is not how any of us believe what happened, happened. What actually happened, happened. I do want to get this right. I think it matters.

 

 

[cuchulain]

a thought...ask if the change will make you a better person?

[Seeker]

That becomes problematic if you're redefining "better" in the process.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

23 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

a thought...ask if the change will make you a better person?

 

I would rather ask, if the path is based on evidence.  Caring about what is true, instead of what is popular, is a good component for any path.

 

Asking what will make you -- me -- anyone -- a better person -- is a path.  At least, part of a path.

[cuchulain]

4 hours ago, Seeker said:

That becomes problematic if you're redefining "better" in the process.

 

nah.  everyone has the right to peacefully determine what is right, or better.  its part and parcel.  a christian might say doing gods will makes you better person.  i would define it as contributing to the community in part. someone else might say reducing the footprint, or being great to the family.  i think if a person can consider what they can do to be better and try, they'll get somewhere.

 

edited to say, better isnt always or usually easier...or unproblematic.

Edited August 8, 2018 by cuchulain

[Seeker]

I wasn't denying that in the slightest.

 

My point was that with a shift in belief there often comes a shift in what you see as better. Thus whether you are a "better" person depends on what you believe and doesn't really help you decide whether to change your beliefs.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

40 minutes ago, Seeker said:

I wasn't denying that in the slightest.

 

My point was that with a shift in belief there often comes a shift in what you see as better. Thus whether you are a "better" person depends on what you believe and doesn't really help you decide whether to change your beliefs.

 

 

 

That's an interesting choice of words.  Do we decide to change our beliefs?  Is that really a decision?  

 

 

[Seeker]

I was responding to Cuchulain's  "will it make you a better person?". The context there seems to me to imply a conscious choice.

 

I think its a mixture - we think about where we are internally led.  There's a saying I like it that respect - man(kind) is not a rational animal, but a rationalizing animal. In that view we do, and then we find reasons for what we have done. I don't think that's the whole truth, but IMHO it is a lot closer to the mark than the alternative.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, Seeker said:

I was responding to Cuchulain's  "will it make you a better person?". The context there seems to me to imply a conscious choice.

 

I think its a mixture - we think about where we are internally led.  There's a saying I like it that respect - man(kind) is not a rational animal, but a rationalizing animal. In that view we do, and then we find reasons for what we have done. I don't think that's the whole truth, but IMHO it is a lot closer to the mark than the alternative.

 

 

 

I can take on a code of ethics, because I think it will make me a better man.  Or I can adopt a meditation practice, because I think it will make me a less angry man.  Or more loving.  Can I really choose a belief system?  I think that's a stretch.   If I discover that my beliefs have already changed, I can change my label.  This is possible.  I don't think it is possible to actually change my beliefs.  I might have abundant cause to pretend to change my beliefs.  To actually change what I believe -- as a choice -- No.

 

I do have the option of engaging in a program of introspective discovery -- and discern that my beliefs have already shifted.  I have done this.  Repeatedly.  It's why my position keeps shifting.  I can't just choose a new belief system.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Lynne]

I find that the belief I had as a child was for a child.  I grew, learned and things always change as we grow in faith.  I am still learning, growing day by day. My belief that God the Father came to earth as Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) will never change.  But, all my faith is between God and myself.  I do not chose to force my beliefs and my God on anyone.  I personally don't think He likes it.  I do not judge others.  There are those that are condemned already because the Bible says so.  But, then that is between them and God.

In my ministry I try to help those in need, whether they are a believer or not.  I plant the seed.  I see a lot of people calming to be Christians that never do anything for others, but like the to clam they are following in Jesus's  foot steps. I am not trying to pat myself and my husband on the back, but, show me you take young people in and help them, show me you feed the hungry.  They are out there living by threads.

We live in a society that don't have time to bring up their children and the minute they start talking back they are just kicked out.  I call them throw away kids.  I am a intercessory prayer warrior, my faith has changed with time because I am growing in knowledge. I learn new every day.  I pray that I never let myself think I know it all.  Because I do not.  You put up a very interesting post.  God Bless

[Seeker]

Hello and welcome Lynne.