Light and Darkness

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

15 hours ago, mererdog said:

Ah. The basic inability to clear the conceptual hurdle. "I do not see how it could be true, therefore it cannot be true. The limits of my imagination are the limits of reality." 

 

And, for the record, I may actually give less credence to the contents of your Reiki training than you give to the contents of the Bible. I do not know it is nonsense. I believe it is, however. That particular conceptual hurdle is too high for me.

 

 

After all the lectures you have given me about being open minded -- you come up with this?       

[Joyful]

This is a most interesting verse.  I checked out some other variations of it on Biblegateway.com.  I tried to attached a file that shows some of the variations from other translations but I don't have the way to convert it so go there and check is out.  Some of the translations they have I have never heard of.

Since we are all a part of God and he is in us, we are in him, we can create light or we can create darkness.  We have the yin and yang within us.  The freewill to do either.

Darkness is the absence of all light.  This represents the picture of not knowing. “keep them in the dark” .  This can also represent un enlightenment.  This word indicates we have come from darkness and into light. 

How do we create light? Turn on a switch and a light bulb comes on.  Turn on our mind to endless possibilities and the light bulb is above our head! New truths, new thoughts and light is within us.

These opinions are mine alone.

 trie

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Joyful said:

This is a most interesting verse.  I checked out some other variations of it on Biblegateway.com.  I tried to attached a file that shows some of the variations from other translations but I don't have the way to convert it so go there and check is out.  Some of the translations they have I have never heard of.

Since we are all a part of God and he is in us, we are in him, we can create light or we can create darkness.  We have the yin and yang within us.  The freewill to do either.

Darkness is the absence of all light.  This represents the picture of not knowing. “keep them in the dark” .  This can also represent un enlightenment.  This word indicates we have come from darkness and into light. 

How do we create light? Turn on a switch and a light bulb comes on.  Turn on our mind to endless possibilities and the light bulb is above our head! New truths, new thoughts and light is within us.

These opinions are mine alone.

 trie

 

 

The Taoist Yin Yang symbol is more complex and subtle than you give it credit.

 

Look closely at the symbol.  The Dark, Yang side has a spec of Light.

 

The Light, Yin side has a spec of Darkness.

 

 

We learn from the I Ching that if something is all Yin, it becomes unstable and turns into Yang.

 

If something is all Yang, it becomes unstable and turns into Yin.

 

The spec of Light keeps the Yang stable.  The spec of Darkness  keeps the Yin stable.  In the larger symbol, the Light and Dark keep each other stable.  They are not at war.  They are in dynamic harmony.  

 

It is not just pretty symbolism.  It has been confirmed by Astro-Physics.  Our galaxy is a place of great Light.  Many billions of stars.  The galaxy would fly apart except for the super massive black hole at it's center.  It is the gravity of the super massive black hole that keeps the galaxy stable.

 

As with the Taoist Yin Yang symbol, the Light is kept stable by a spec of Darkness.

 

 

Since we are talking about the Taoist symbol -- a small side issue.  Light and Dark are not at war with each other.  This is something that Star Wars got totally wrong.  Every atom has both a positive and negative charge.  There is no war.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Brother Kaman]

6 hours ago, Joyful said:

This is a most interesting verse.  I checked out some other variations of it on Biblegateway.com.  I tried to attached a file that shows some of the variations from other translations but I don't have the way to convert it so go there and check is out.  Some of the translations they have I have never heard of.

Since we are all a part of God and he is in us, we are in him, we can create light or we can create darkness.  We have the yin and yang within us.  The freewill to do either.

Darkness is the absence of all light.  This represents the picture of not knowing. “keep them in the dark” .  This can also represent un enlightenment.  This word indicates we have come from darkness and into light. 

How do we create light? Turn on a switch and a light bulb comes on.  Turn on our mind to endless possibilities and the light bulb is above our head! New truths, new thoughts and light is within us.

These opinions are mine alone.

 trie

Thou Art God, Joyful.

[RabbiO]

 

On August 10, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Brother Kaman said:

I like the part where H/he admits to creating evil.

 

If that is what it says.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, RabbiO said:

 

 

If that is what it says.

 

Welcome back.  I've missed you.

 

You understand the Hebrew.  What does it say?   

[Pastor Dave]

The CJB is a messianic translation so it may or may not point to what RabbiO was getting at.

Isaiah 45:7 (CJB)

⁷ I form light, I create darkness;
I make well-being, I create woe;
I, Adonai, do all these things.

 

Other texts I like to read alongside the KJV are the Common English Bible,

Isaiah 45:7 (CEB)

⁷     I form light and create darkness,
    make prosperity and create doom;
    I am the Lord, who does all these things.

 

and the Amplified Bible (which often expands on some of the wording).

Isaiah 45:7Amplified Bible (AMP)

⁷ 
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing peace and creating disaster;
I am the Lord who does all these things.

 

Of course I also go to the Strongs Hebrew concordance whenever I'm trying to understand particular words that may have multiple possible translations.

 

Isaiah  45:7 (Hebrew)
evil: 7451   ra` rah: from 7489; bad or (as noun) evil (natural or moral):-- adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease(-ure), distress, evil((- favouredness), man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief(-vous), harm, heavy, hurt(-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief(-vous), misery, naught(-ty), noisome, + not please, sad(-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked(-ly, -ness, one), worse(-st), wretchedness, wrong. (Incl. feminine raaah; as adjective or noun.).

Edited August 14, 2017 by Pastor Dave

[mererdog]

On 8/13/2017 at 6:58 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

After all the lectures you have given me about being open minded -- 

I don't think I have ever lectured you about being open minded. There are a lot of things I am quite closed minded about. But note that I draw a distinction between what I believe and what I know. This is to acknowledge that what I believe to be true may not be true.

But I believe what I believe, you know? Its not something I can control. I can no more decide to be open minded about Reiki than I can decide to believe I am a small tree. The lymbic system is a cruel mistress.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, mererdog said:

I don't think I have ever lectured you about being open minded. There are a lot of things I am quite closed minded about. But note that I draw a distinction between what I believe and what I know. This is to acknowledge that what I believe to be true may not be true.

But I believe what I believe, you know? Its not something I can control. I can no more decide to be open minded about Reiki than I can decide to believe I am a small tree. The lymbic system is a cruel mistress.

 

In this matter, I actually am open minded.  I think if you want to take an anti-reiki position, it should be more informed.  You should know why the medical establishment -- and scientists, despise Reiki.

 

I recommend www.quackwatch.com     Then you will know why you don't believe in Reiki.   While you are at it, see how they attack Therapeutic Touch.  They really, really hate Therapeutic Touch.  Of course, I think they are mistaken, but I am not afraid of opposing views.  Or honest disagreement.  I prefer the people who disagree to be informed.  

 

Enjoy.

 

[the Hearthwitch]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

In this matter, I actually am open minded.  I think if you want to take an anti-reiki position, it should be more informed.  You should know why the medical establishment -- and scientists, despise Reiki.

 

I recommend www.quackwatch.com     Then you will know why you don't believe in Reiki.   While you are at it, see how they attack Therapeutic Touch.  They really, really hate Therapeutic Touch.  Of course, I think they are mistaken, but I am not afraid of opposing views.  Or honest disagreement.  I prefer the people who disagree to be informed.  

 

Enjoy.

 

Wow. Just checked 'em out. The basis for their disdain of divination is, well, unscientific as hell. Just because someone tried to fake some people out does not necessarily mean that others aren't perfectly capable of genuinely being able to perform solid readings. That's like saying that because I'm not fond of performing readings with cards (I don't), all forms of divination (such as pendulum work, which I do like to do) are a fraud. 

Derp.

Not sure you can count quackwatch as a good source for solid points of argument! LOL 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

30 minutes ago, the Hearthwitch said:

Wow. Just checked 'em out. The basis for their disdain of divination is, well, unscientific as hell. Just because someone tried to fake some people out does not necessarily mean that others aren't perfectly capable of genuinely being able to perform solid readings. That's like saying that because I'm not fond of performing readings with cards (I don't), all forms of divination (such as pendulum work, which I do like to do) are a fraud. 

Derp.

Not sure you can count quackwatch as a good source for solid points of argument! LOL 

 

 

 

I think that their disdain of Reiki, Therapeutic Touch, Qi Gong and others is very unfair.  And lacking in objectivity.  In particular, I dislike the treatment of Therapeutic Touch in JAMA -- The Journal of the American Medical Association.

 

For all that, sometimes the establishment is right.  It has been known to happen.  Sometimes, there is a reality shift.

 

In fairly recent history, the great French chemist, Louis Pasteur, was working with his newly developed microscope.  He found the bacterium responsible for Anthrax.  The world laughed at him.  First, Pasteur was a chemist.  A notable chemist, but only a chemist.  He had no medical credentials.  Second, the authorities of his day thought it was funny, that disease should be caused by tiny creatures.  They mocked without mercy.  All but one.  

 

The great British surgeon, Lord Lister -- as in Listerine -- was fascinated by Pasteur's work.  He made the doctor's under his command wash their hands and their instruments.  

 

The death rate dropped precipitously.  One of the greatest reality shifts in human history.  

 

 

History repeats.  I can wait.   

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[RevTom]

On 8/10/2017 at 1:05 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

I find this verse highly interesting.  Darkness is not the absence of Light.  Darkness is created.  There is also the small issue of good and evil.

 

I though this might make an interesting conversation.

Greetings, and good tidings: This is indeed an interesting topic and as you will delve through a discourse in apologetics referring to the meaning of "...and create evil" there can be several interpretations, but there seem to be a consensus among bible scholars. I am christian, but find several topics interesting in their various interpretations. My understanding is that in this sense, God created times of good and prosperity, and also times of despair and stress. (the New Living Translation phrases it as “I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I am the one who sends good times and bad times", and the New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text concurs with  this understanding ; “I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe—I the Lord do all these things.”). Thus, God creates the times of prosperity and times of troubles, but does not create evil or thngs that are by nature evil in the sense of moral depravity.

[cuchulain]

Maybe it is a statement about the duality of existence?  Such as, there can be no light without the darkness to contrast.  There can be no pain without pleasure, and so on.  Although, from a being who can do anything, it kind of doesn't sit as well with me and many others who think that being could have made different rules.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, RevTom said:

Greetings, and good tidings: This is indeed an interesting topic and as you will delve through a discourse in apologetics referring to the meaning of "...and create evil" there can be several interpretations, but there seem to be a consensus among bible scholars. I am christian, but find several topics interesting in their various interpretations. My understanding is that in this sense, God created times of good and prosperity, and also times of despair and stress. (the New Living Translation phrases it as “I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I am the one who sends good times and bad times", and the New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text concurs with  this understanding ; “I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe—I the Lord do all these things.”). Thus, God creates the times of prosperity and times of troubles, but does not create evil or thngs that are by nature evil in the sense of moral depravity.

 

 

I used to have a circle of Hassidic friends.  They insisted that according to Kabballah, darkness is condensed light.  

 

It actually makes sense, if matter is condensed energy.  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Maybe it is a statement about the duality of existence?  Such as, there can be no light without the darkness to contrast.  There can be no pain without pleasure, and so on.  Although, from a being who can do anything, it kind of doesn't sit as well with me and many others who think that being could have made different rules.

 

 

This line of thought is pure metaphysics, of a type I find suspect.  Perhaps pain does sharpen life's meaning.  I think we could have done without suffering.  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, RevTom said:

Greetings, and good tidings: This is indeed an interesting topic and as you will delve through a discourse in apologetics referring to the meaning of "...and create evil" there can be several interpretations, but there seem to be a consensus among bible scholars. I am christian, but find several topics interesting in their various interpretations. My understanding is that in this sense, God created times of good and prosperity, and also times of despair and stress. (the New Living Translation phrases it as “I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I am the one who sends good times and bad times", and the New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text concurs with  this understanding ; “I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe—I the Lord do all these things.”). Thus, God creates the times of prosperity and times of troubles, but does not create evil or things that are by nature evil in the sense of moral depravity.

 

This only follows if you insist that God is all good.  I understand why such an assumption is tempting -- but I think it is still an unproven assumption.  

 

 

[RevTom]

32 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

This only follows if you insist that God is all good.  I understand why such an assumption is tempting -- but I think it is still an unproven assumption.  

 

 

The only things we will ever have as "proofs" or indications are what we read from the scriptures, and how we interpret life's events and the events of history. The evidences will never be empirical with those who see God in a different context than do christians, yet these very evidences will be empirical to those who are christian.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

7 hours ago, RevTom said:

The only things we will ever have as "proofs" or indications are what we read from the scriptures, and how we interpret life's events and the events of history. The evidences will never be empirical with those who see God in a different context than do christians, yet these very evidences will be empirical to those who are christian.

 

Again, in order for this to be the case, we must assume that the Bible comes from God.  I do not believe this to be true.  It's worse.  There are scriptures other than the Bible.  They contradict each other.  They can't all be true.  They can all be false.  

 

I am not telling you what to believe.  Only why I don't believe.  

[Key]

16 hours ago, RevTom said:

The only things we will ever have as "proofs" or indications are what we read from the scriptures, and how we interpret life's events and the events of history. The evidences will never be empirical with those who see God in a different context than do christians, yet these very evidences will be empirical to those who are christian.

Not sure these are seen as empirical even among christians, as there are so many factions and interpretations among them. At least, not among all christians.

[Sergio]

Cuando dice que es creador de luz y oscuridad está diciendo una vez más que nos da libertad de actuación en nuestra estancia en la Tierra.

Timoteo 1:7 – “Porque no nos ha dado Dios espíritu de cobardía, sino de poder, de amor y de dominio propio”.

 

Timothy 1: 7 - "God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, love and self-control."

When he says that he is a creator of light and darkness, he is once again saying that he gives us freedom of action in our time on Earth.