Agnostics, Atheists, Brights, Free Thinkers

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I thought it might be a fun topic to discuss the different labels.

 

Atheists, Agnostics, Brights, Free Thinkers, Secularists, Humanists, Secular Humanists, Spiritual Humanists, Objectivists, Pantheists, Apatheists,  Nones, No Preference, Etc.  Of course, there are combinations.  Apathetic Agnostic and Agnostic Atheist are popular.

 

We all end up wearing labels, whether they fit or not.  Sometimes, finding the perfect label becomes a game.  Which label do you like?  One of these?  Something else?   Stoic Atheist?  

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Brother Kaman]

2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I thought it might be a fun topic to discuss the different labels.

 

Atheists, Agnostics, Brights, Free Thinkers, Secularists, Humanists, Secular Humanists, Spiritual Humanists, Objectivists, Pantheists, Apatheists,  Nones, No Preference, Etc.  Of course, there are combinations.  Apathetic Agnostic and Agnostic Atheist are popular.

 

We all end up wearing labels, whether they fit or not.  Sometimes, finding the perfect label becomes a game.  Which label do you like?  One of these?  Something else?   Stoic Atheist?  

 

 

 

Now, now, Jonathan H. B. Lobl, you have often expressed your disdain for labels.  Change of heart and mind?

Edited September 2, 2017 by Brother Kaman

[mererdog]

I think of myself as an atheist. It just seems simple and direct.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

Now, now, Jonathan H. B. Lobl, you have often expressed your disdain for labels.  Change of heart and mind?

 

I'm inconsistent.         

 

I have discovered that I enjoy being an Agnostic minister.     

 

Being an Atheist minister wasn't working for me.        

 

So yes, I'm inconsistent.       

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, mererdog said:

I think of myself as an atheist. It just seems simple and direct.

 

 

Perhaps my memory is off.  I remember you saying you were agnostic.  (small a)  It's not important.  Just how I remember it.  

[Brother Kaman]

2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I'm inconsistent.         

 

I have discovered that I enjoy being an Agnostic minister.     

 

Being an Atheist minister wasn't working for me.        

 

So yes, I'm inconsistent.       

 

 

 

 

 

 

cool. Change is consistent with all of us. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Brother Kaman said:

cool. Change is consistent with all of us. 

 

 

 

  Change is the only constant.    

[cuchulain]

Stoic Atheist serves me well enough.  Bright?  That's a new one for me, now I have to look that one up.  You made me do work!!!

[mererdog]

8 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Perhaps my memory is off.  I remember you saying you were agnostic.  (small a)  It's not important.  Just how I remember it.  

I am an agnostic. I am also a nontheist. I think of myself as an athiest.

[Rev. Calli]

8 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I'm inconsistent.         

 

I have discovered that I enjoy being an Agnostic minister.     

 

Being an Atheist minister wasn't working for me.        

 

So yes, I'm inconsistent.       

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greetings to you my brother,

 

I am reminded of a quote by Woody Allen.  "I don't believe in an afterlife, but I am taking a change of underwear."

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, mererdog said:

I am an agnostic. I am also a nontheist. I think of myself as an athiest.

 

 

They are similar.  I think when I use the agnostic label, I get sucked into fewer silly arguments.  Except for the extremists.   I have had to leave a few atheist sites on Facebook.  I made the mistake of saying agnostic there.  It wasn't pretty.  It's amazing how quickly they gang up.  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Stoic Atheist serves me well enough.  Bright?  That's a new one for me, now I have to look that one up.  You made me do work!!!

 

 

I think it was an attempt to get over the Agnostic vs. Atheist thing.  So far as I can tell, it never caught on.  

[cuchulain]

An attempt to get over a label that isn't accurate...with another label that doesn't seem too accurate either.  OH well.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

19 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

An attempt to get over a label that isn't accurate...with another label that doesn't seem too accurate either.  OH well.

 

 

According to Daniel Dennett, it was an attempt to come up with a popular word for Atheists; in the same way that "gay" worked for gay rights.  It's a nice idea that never quite took.  Well, maybe it needs more time.  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you my brother,

 

I am reminded of a quote by Woody Allen.  "I don't believe in an afterlife, but I am taking a change of underwear."

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

 

After life is a separate issue.  As far as that goes, I like to think that something survives death, but I have no confidence that it does.  

[mark 45]

considering the humanists around here,i do not want mixed up with them.

 

free thinker would be nice,except for the above.

 

so i guess i'll leave it at atheist.

 

in my current life i started with diapers,so i didn't need underwear for a while.i suspect it will be the same in my next life. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

11 minutes ago, mark 45 said:

considering the humanists around here,i do not want mixed up with them.

 

free thinker would be nice,except for the above.

 

so i guess i'll leave it at atheist.

 

in my current life i started with diapers,so i didn't need underwear for a while.i suspect it will be the same in my next life. 

 

 

My experience with Humanists is limited.  How ever,

 

There is a Humanist group trying to get Humanist chaplains into the American military.  I think that would be a welcome development.

 

There is a Humanist group resisting "under God" in the Pledge.  They have lawyers.

 

Ideology and personality aside, they could be a good thing.  

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[VonNoble]

Labels.   Perhaps that very issue is what drove a goodly number of us to join ULC.

 

Even that causes confusion. 

 

Is the UNIVERSAL LIFE (some reference to God who ever was and every will be)......thereby making this

church somehow tied to the notion of God?

 

OR is UNIVERSAL LIFE a reference to the fact that we reincarnate and our impact upon

mankind moves forward beyond death  in some way?

 

OR was it just a version of trying to come up with a no denominational concept at the time?

 

Labels are such pesky devils. 

 

I suspect like many - I have toyed with several and never quite find an exact match up.

The other problem for more than one of us  - when I do find one that sort of fits we 

can't quite affix it.   I seem to find (almost as quickly as I settle upon one) - I find all

too quickly,  a few other people sharing the label who are far

afield to one side or the other - with the basic beliefs.   They quickly put on and 

sport the label without a commitment to adhere to the basics (or ever for pity

sake to understand the basics) 

 

Radical extremists seem to be on the bell shaped curve of every label

so it makes it difficult to wanna join in.  If you are guilty by association with the dunderheads

you end up spending a bunch of valuable time explaining, apologizing or being frustrated

by the least of your brothers.    Time better spent doing good quietly.

 

It is enjoyable to see the lengths to which creative writers do wordplay to invent

proper labels.   I am seeing that the labels we choose are diversifying into numbers

akin to that of snowflakes and fingerprints.   

 

Not having a label is also problematic as it  smacks of not winnowing down

beliefs enough to find a common denominator with others.  Being label-less too i

s a bit faulty in presentation. 

 

Labels are a convenient starting point, a quick reference tool for us to smell out

those who are alike and different from us.   Unfortunately many people never

get beyond them.  

 

Labels can become the yardstick by which others judge your hypocrisy.  So they work

to attract and repel people in about equal measure.

 

Forgive the rambling.....

 

von 

 

 

[mererdog]

13 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I have had to leave a few atheist sites on Facebook.  I made the mistake of saying agnostic there.  It wasn't pretty.  It's amazing how quickly they gang up.  

Atheism is defined by what we are not rather what we are. As a result, two random atheists are not really that likely to share any common interests. So any athiest club or organization will really be organized (officially or not) around something other than atheism. In my experience, a self-described "athiest group" is usually really a "let's complain about religious people group." That sort of thing attracts guys who enjoy bragging about how big the chip on their shoulder is. Its an inherently unhealthy thing, I think.

Edited September 3, 2017 by mererdog

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

56 minutes ago, mererdog said:

Atheism is defined by what we are not rather what we are. As a result, two random atheists are not really that likely to share any common interests. So any athiest club or organization will really be organized (officially or not) around something other than atheism. In my experience, a self-described "athiest group" is usually really a "let's complain about religious people group." That sort of thing attracts guys who enjoy bragging about how big the chip on their shoulder is. Its an inherently unhealthy thing, I think.

 

 

Your point is well taken.  Some context of what happened will help.  First, these were Facebook Atheist groups.  

 

Somebody asked the question:  If you had to join a religion, which religion would you choose?  This question comes up a lot in these groups.  The response was a general laundry list.  I went down the list and saw that nobody had said Agnostic.  I thought it was a funny answer.  If I had to take on a forced conversion, to the religion of my choice, I would choose Agnosticism.  

 

The group didn't think it was funny.  From the general reaction -- they piled on -- you would have thought I had walked into their church and pissed on their altar.  I told them that they were being rude.  They told me that they were educating me.  So I left.   With minor variants, this happened in several Facebook Atheist groups.  I left all of them.

 

I can't stand groups with no sense of humor.  They're no fun at all.