cuchulain

evidence for the supernatural

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In reexamining my beliefs, I realize that this is ultimately what it boils down to.  Is there any reasonable evidence for supernatural events happening?  If there is no evidence for the supernatural, then clearly there is no evidence for any sort of deity.  Supernatural is defined as some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.  Deity is defined as a god or goddess, divine character or nature, especially that of the Supreme being.  Reasonable is defined as having sound judgement, fair and sensible, capable of reasoning, rational.

So, I pose the question:  Does anyone here have any reasonable evidence for supernatural happenings?  I would consider a preponderance of anecdotal stories from reliable sources as evidence, meaning stories from people who haven't been diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder, or who don't clearly promote a specific agenda, and in numerous amounts.  I personally have that "one" story from my own experience, and having had three friends with me as witnesses that it actually occurred, but whether or not the event was supernatural is undetermined by those of us with a sound mental background.  The other person who was convinced it was supernatural later ended up in an institution, with the firm belief he was a werewolf, so for obvious reasons I disbelieve his accounting.

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47 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

In reexamining my beliefs, I realize that this is ultimately what it boils down to.  Is there any reasonable evidence for supernatural events happening?  If there is no evidence for the supernatural, then clearly there is no evidence for any sort of deity.  Supernatural is defined as some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.  Deity is defined as a god or goddess, divine character or nature, especially that of the Supreme being.  Reasonable is defined as having sound judgement, fair and sensible, capable of reasoning, rational.

So, I pose the question:  Does anyone here have any reasonable evidence for supernatural happenings?  I would consider a preponderance of anecdotal stories from reliable sources as evidence, meaning stories from people who haven't been diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder, or who don't clearly promote a specific agenda, and in numerous amounts.  I personally have that "one" story from my own experience, and having had three friends with me as witnesses that it actually occurred, but whether or not the event was supernatural is undetermined by those of us with a sound mental background.  The other person who was convinced it was supernatural later ended up in an institution, with the firm belief he was a werewolf, so for obvious reasons I disbelieve his accounting.

The Supernatural lies in the quantum realm.  Only in death can we experience it first hand.  Whether or not we will do this consciously is in question. 

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Dan56   
57 minutes ago, mererdog said:

I think your definition is flawed because, based on it, lightning was once supernatural. 

I agree, everything is supernatural until we understand it.. How everything in nature works together in harmony could be construed as supernatural. While some might consider nature as some kind of coincident, I see it as a complete design that didn't fall together by accident. When there's an order to everything that exist, from a blooming flower, to birds flying south for the winter, those are everyday miracles. It only seems natural to us because its all we've ever seen and known, but the fact that it all meshes together and is not chaotic makes it a supernatural phenomenon. We tend to think that if we can understand it, its not supernatural, but the 'order' of things rather than 'disorder' is where I see a supernatural influence on all that exist. Everything on earth has a purpose and reason, which convinces me that something supernatural arranged it, and that cause was God.

Edited by Dan56

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I have my own biases and I want to be clear about them.

Everything that exists is part of the natural order.  If it should somehow turn out that God exists;  then God would be part of the natural order.  

Is it possible that God exists?  Yes.  It is possible.  The proability of God's existence is greater than absolute zero.  Then again, based on the available evidence -- the probability of God's existence is so low that it can be ignored.  That is only part of it.  There is a second part.  Again, these are my biases.  Even if God exists -- so what?  God's actual existence or non existence changes nothing.  If this world is the best work that God can manage, I'm not impressed.  On balance, there is no evidence that God actually exists.  I do not believe.

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First of all, I do believe in the supernatural as the word is meant. But, echoing Jonathan's sentiment, I agree the term is somewhat problematic because if something does indeed exist then it would be part of Nature too (although perhaps not readily understandable). I personally do not believe that the existence of the supernatural implies the existence of a deity or deities or that its absence negates the presence of a deity. I am a polytheist and do not have a Supreme Being. Although I do communicate with "gods" they are more like deified ancestors and not omnipotent or omniscient. I have had psychic premonitions, miraculously survived brushes with certain death, and have had illnesses and injuries resolved through spiritual healing. But none of these events require the presence of a god or gods. Psychic premonitions could be a innate ability of a person's mind without requiring an external deity. Some agency caused me to automatically change lanes in a split second preventing me from crashing into an out of control semi on a rainy day. I did not have time to think or react but my hands moved of their own accord. It could have been my subconscious, or perhaps my higher self if I wanted to wax metaphysical. Even if my hands were under the control of an external influence, it doesn't mean that it was "Jesus" or any other god who took the wheel. It could have been possession by a ghost, extraterrestrial mind control, or assistance from a rank and file angel without involving any deity at all. As for spiritual healing, It could be the manipulation of my own energy by the healer without the need of intercession by a deity. On the other hand, (although I do not personally believe in a Supreme Being) if one uses the divine clockmaker as an example of deity, the lack of supernatural intervention does not indicate the absence of a deity. A Supreme Being could have just set everything in motion and walked off to let the Universe run itself. Just my personal opinions. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, or I would have won the Powerball the other day :)

Edited by Gruffydd y Dryw

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mererdog   
28 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

It may be a flawed definition, but it's from the dictionary.

You see how defining something as being beyond scientific understanding makes it pretty much impossible to have evidence for it? I mean, at best, people can show evidence of something that you don't understand, or show evidence that experts don't understand something, or show how something is unexplained or underexplained, but what does any of that really prove?

blue text is fun

Edited by 8P
Fixed quote box. Added link

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1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

It may be a flawed definition, but it's from the dictionary.

Hi Cuchulain,

No criticism was intended towards you on my part. Its just the nature of language. Words sometimes convey meanings that may not match their original intended use. Look up an older definition of the word "gay" versus what it has come to mean today ;) I understood how you meant the word. It is the word itself that I find problematic, not your use of it :)

Edited by Gruffydd y Dryw

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mererdog   
Just now, Gruffydd y Dryw said:

Hi Cuchulain :),

No criticism intended on my part. Its just the nature of language. Look up an older definition of the word "gay" versus what it has come to mean today ;) 

Try "artificial" or "awful". Those are my favorites...

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10 hours ago, Gruffydd y Dryw said:

First of all, I do believe in the supernatural as the word is meant. But, echoing Jonathan's sentiment, I agree the term is somewhat problematic because if something does indeed exist then it would be part of Nature too (although perhaps not readily understandable). I personally do not believe that the existence of the supernatural implies the existence of a deity or deities or that its absence negates the presence of a deity. I am a polytheist and do not have a Supreme Being. Although I do communicate with "gods" they are more like deified ancestors and not omnipotent or omniscient. I have had psychic premonitions, miraculously survived brushes with certain death, and have had illnesses and injuries resolved through spiritual healing. But none of these events require the presence of a god or gods. Psychic premonitions could be a innate ability of a person's mind without requiring an external deity. Some agency caused me to automatically change lanes in a split second preventing me from crashing into an out of control semi on a rainy day. I did not have time to think or react but my hands moved of their own accord. It could have been my subconscious, or perhaps my higher self if I wanted to wax metaphysical. Even if my hands were under the control of an external influence, it doesn't mean that it was "Jesus" or any other god who took the wheel. It could have been possession by a ghost, extraterrestrial mind control, or assistance from a rank and file angel without involving any deity at all. As for spiritual healing, It could be the manipulation of my own energy by the healer without the need of intercession by a deity. On the other hand, (although I do not personally believe in a Supreme Being) if one uses the divine clockmaker as an example of deity, the lack of supernatural intervention does not indicate the absence of a deity. A Supreme Being could have just set everything in motion and walked off to let the Universe run itself. Just my personal opinions. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, or I would have won the Powerball the other day :)

 

Anyone who does claim to have all the answers, is not to be trusted.   :D

 

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emalpaiz   

I do believe that the whole universe is an Ocean of Life.  Call it what you want, it does not matter.  Then again, I am not very brilliant.

Hermano Luis

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On 1/15/2016 at 6:32 AM, Gruffydd y Dryw said:

First of all, I do believe in the supernatural as the word is meant. But, echoing Jonathan's sentiment, I agree the term is somewhat problematic because if something does indeed exist then it would be part of Nature too (although perhaps not readily understandable). I personally do not believe that the existence of the supernatural implies the existence of a deity or deities or that its absence negates the presence of a deity. I am a polytheist and do not have a Supreme Being. Although I do communicate with "gods" they are more like deified ancestors and not omnipotent or omniscient. I have had psychic premonitions, miraculously survived brushes with certain death, and have had illnesses and injuries resolved through spiritual healing. But none of these events require the presence of a god or gods. Psychic premonitions could be a innate ability of a person's mind without requiring an external deity. Some agency caused me to automatically change lanes in a split second preventing me from crashing into an out of control semi on a rainy day. I did not have time to think or react but my hands moved of their own accord. It could have been my subconscious, or perhaps my higher self if I wanted to wax metaphysical. Even if my hands were under the control of an external influence, it doesn't mean that it was "Jesus" or any other god who took the wheel. It could have been possession by a ghost, extraterrestrial mind control, or assistance from a rank and file angel without involving any deity at all. As for spiritual healing, It could be the manip ulation of my own energy by the healer without the need of intercession by a deity. On the other hand, (although I do not personally believe in a Supreme Being) if one uses the divine clockmaker as an example of deity, the lack of supernatural intervention does not indicate the absence of a deity. A Supreme Being could have just set everything in motion and walked off to let the Universe run itself. Just my personal opinions. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, or I would have won the Powerball the other day :)

 

Anyone who does claim to have all the answers, is not to be trusted.   :D

9 hours ago, emalpaiz said:

I do believe that the whole universe is an Ocean of Life.  Call it what you want, it does not matter.  Then again, I am not very brilliant.

Hermano Luis

 

The Universe is a many layered mystery and an infinite source of awe.  For all that, completely natural.

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I agree pretty much with your definition. What has happened over time is that many things that were supernatural have been explained and are now through to be perfectly natural. Earthquakes, lightning, meteors, etc were all thought to be magic until they were scientifically understood. Ghosts are considered supernatural, although people are studying them.

There are many examples of encounters with ghosts that are evidence of something being there, but what that is is not fully scientifically understood. 

 

I used to watch  a TV show called Ghost Hunters. I know many people have criticized it for being hokey. But on one episode they were in a building known to haunted. They had a camera crew and a sound man with them that were usually off screen. One incident however was recorded. The sound man, was carrying a large shoulder bag filled with stuff. The bag was hanging by his neck in front of him. All of a sudden, he was knocked unconscious. The video showed him walking and cuddly, the bad lifted up and smacked him right in the face. Now, assuming that was real and it really happened, is evidence of the supernatural.

I view spirituality as being different from being supernatural (I know that others disagree). I prefer to think of supernatural as phenomena that have some basis in reality that perhaps someday will become part of the physical world. I believe spirituality is metaphysical or beyond the physical world. Spirituality is something that can only be experienced by individuals in a completely non-physical way. In other words something that cane experienced but can never be reduced to science.

 

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It is a matter of perspective.  If it is possible to demonstrate that ghosts exist; it only means that ghosts are part of the natural order.  That is a big if.  Conclusive proof is still pending.

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...but...but...Casper was friendly...Jason, Steve and Tango seem like credible sorts and the other guys over at G.A., Zak, Aaron, Billy and in the past Nick did a bang up job of providing some great video evidence!

It's all very interesting to say the least and like our good buddy Fox Moulder over at the FBI says: "I want to believe". Is there 100%, absolutely indisputable evidence of the afterlife? In a word, "No!" A lot of compelling, dramatic and enticing video coverage that seems to make the case but then again one could almost lay in the grass on Pandora with the excellent 3D effects in Avatar™.

I think perhaps that knowing, 100%, for sure, without any doubt, there is in fact an afterlife is one of the things humanity just might not be ready to know. We know already how purposeful, well intention, good things get corrupted when mankind gets a hold of it.

And besides, if we knew for certain there was an afterlife...wouldn't that blow the whole concept of "salvation" out the window?

Blessings Be,

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Key   
25 minutes ago, Atwater Vitki said:

...but...but...Casper was friendly...Jason, Steve and Tango seem like credible sorts and the other guys over at G.A., Zak, Aaron, Billy and in the past Nick did a bang up job of providing some great video evidence!

It's all very interesting to say the least and like our good buddy Fox Moulder over at the FBI says: "I want to believe". Is there 100%, absolutely indisputable evidence of the afterlife? In a word, "No!" A lot of compelling, dramatic and enticing video coverage that seems to make the case but then again one could almost lay in the grass on Pandora with the excellent 3D effects in Avatar™.

I think perhaps that knowing, 100%, for sure, without any doubt, there is in fact an afterlife is one of the things humanity just might not be ready to know. We know already how purposeful, well intention, good things get corrupted when mankind gets a hold of it.

And besides, if we knew for certain there was an afterlife...wouldn't that blow the whole concept of "salvation" out the window?

Blessings Be,

I think if we knew for certain there was an afterlife, it would make this life a bit harder to reach it. Kinda like retirement. We know it's coming, but not everyone is prepared for it, and worry aggravates life in its coming. Ya know?

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6 hours ago, Key said:

I think if we knew for certain there was an afterlife, it would make this life a bit harder to reach it. Kinda like retirement. We know it's coming, but not everyone is prepared for it, and worry aggravates life in its coming. Ya know?

Let the facts be verified.  Let the consequences be.     :)

 

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