mererdog Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) I was created by my parents.Not really. You were created by biological processes. The difference is important because it wouldn't be fair to blame your parents if you had down syndrome. Edited May 7, 2015 by mererdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokigami Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I would think they would worship whomever created them, especially since whoever created them would also have the power to destroy them.The power to destroy ones creations is not a given.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan56 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I was created by my parents. I never worshiped my parents. Neither did I seek to kill them. Neither did they threaten to kill me.Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Your parents made a baby, they didn't invent the process by which babies are created.Then if they were intelligent they would eliminate that creator, especially if said creator acted tyrannically and threatened them constantly with destruction. It would be unintelligent to attempt to eliminate your creator, especially if his knowledge and power superseded your own.. If our creator came and walked among us, do you think people would be dumb enough to try and kill him? Whoops! Bad example The power to destroy ones creations is not a given..If a creator has no authority, control, or power over what he's created, then perhaps he should find another line of work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panpareil Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Eggs existed long before chickens, and the first chicken was born from the egg laid by some other very chicken-like-yet-not-a-chicken animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Dan56 said:"Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Your parents made a baby, they didn't invent the process by which babies are created."So I can't take credit for baking a cake because I did not invent the mixing tools, bowl cake pan, oven or the cake mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Your parents made a baby, they didn't invent the process by which babies are created.I think I actually already answered this question earlier in this thread, Dan. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan56 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Eggs existed long before chickens, and the first chicken was born from the egg laid by some other very chicken-like-yet-not-a-chicken animal.That's the old evolution verses creationism debate.. Will the more advanced androids come from some other very android-like, yet not an android-like device? Or do you think something of superior intellect will make androids? I highly doubt they could evolve from a lesser form, although I'm smarter than my mother, so who knows?Dan56 said:"Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Your parents made a baby, they didn't invent the process by which babies are created."So I can't take credit for baking a cake because I did not invent the mixing tools, bowl cake pan, oven or the cake mix?Yes, that's essentially what I was saying, You can take credit for making (baking) a cake, but you didn't make the ingredients necessary to create the cake. Mankind has invented many things, but we've created nothing, we simply discover what was always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Eggs existed long before chickens, and the first chicken was born from the egg laid by some other very chicken-like-yet-not-a-chicken animal.I was going to say something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panpareil Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 That's the old evolution verses creationism debate.. Will the more advanced androids come from some other very android-like, yet not an android-like device? Or do you think something of superior intellect will make androids? I highly doubt they could evolve from a lesser form, although I'm smarter than my mother, so who knows?Look at it this way. Evolution is analogous to human society in that it is self organizing and not created. There is no need for a creator or a central committee to run things. Life forms will automatically develop new life forms through the reproduction process and environmental pressures. Humans will organize into orderly societies driven by their individual attempts to survive, even through there is no designer for these societies. Those humans with the hubris to claim that they are some superior organizers of society are in reality just another member of the herd and they and their utopian dreams are of no more significance than any other.For AI, many men will create an AI that is smarter then any of them are through collected effort. Then many AI will create AI 2.0 that is smarter than any of them are. Repeat.It is related to the cost effectiveness of centralized versus decentralized system information. There is a cost to gathering and centralizing information that originates at all the endpoints and components of a system. The more information that needs to be gathered the less cost effective it is to centralize. Larger systems operate more efficiently when they are decentralized. So a system of many parts is theoretically equivalent to a much larger single part. For the same reason a society runs more efficiently with decentralized control than it does with centralized control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) And yet, centralized control creates things like DARPA, NASA, and Mitsubishi. Historically, those sorts of centralized power structures have provided a lot of technological innovation and if an android gets a soul that android will likely be designed by someone working for that sort of entity. Edited May 9, 2015 by mererdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panpareil Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I did not say centralization was not possible, but that when a system is widely distributed there is a trade off in cost and effectiveness to centralization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I did not say centralization was not possible, but that when a system is widely distributed there is a trade off in cost and effectiveness to centralization.It's not really a tradeoff. Which is more efficient: a hammer or a screwdriver? It depends on whether you are driving nails or screws, right? Centralization versus decentralization is similar. The relative cost, effectiveness, and efficiency all depend on what you are trying to do. The most effective corporations use a mix of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 It's not really a tradeoff. Which is more efficient: a hammer or a screwdriver? It depends on whether you are driving nails or screws, right? Centralization versus decentralization is similar. The relative cost, effectiveness, and efficiency all depend on what you are trying to do. The most effective corporations use a mix of the two.Society is not a corporation. Neither is the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panpareil Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 It's not really a tradeoff. Which is more efficient: a hammer or a screwdriver? It depends on whether you are driving nails or screws, right? Centralization versus decentralization is similar. The relative cost, effectiveness, and efficiency all depend on what you are trying to do. The most effective corporations use a mix of the two.We do not disagree that the nature of the situation will determine the most efficacious course of action.But, I would suggest a read of "I, Pencil." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Coming back to the "what is a soul?" element of the thread - I found this article interesting, although I'm not sure how much of it I would agree with.http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/4518-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Society is not a corporation. Neither is the world.Neither is a wicker basket. Nor a telephone pole. Corporations are, however, large-scale social organizations. And because there is wide diversity in how they are organized and they have measurable goals, they illustrate how different ways of organizing shapes outcomes. Monkeys are not humans but you cam learn about humans by watching monkeys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 We do not disagree that the nature of the situation will determine the most efficacious course of action.But, I would suggest a read of "I, Pencil."I prefer the sequel, where the pencil has an existential crisis after going straight from factory to landfill unused. "Only God could coordinate all that effort, but how did God manage to get it so wrong?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 yes androids can have souls. basic reasoning here being why wouldn't an android have a soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokigami Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 yes androids can have souls. basic reasoning here being why wouldn't an android have a soul. well, they wouldn't if souls don't exist.. for starters.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 well, they wouldn't if souls don't exist.. for starters..Or if they exist but only for organic life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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