VonNoble Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Can you really know yourself without feedback from others? Without seeing how others see us... are we not flat .... missing a dimension as it were? von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark 45 Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 yes you can,even tho it is difficult to explain.like you say "we are the sum of our choices".is it an accurate picture?maybe. feed back can be positive or negetive depending on how it's taken,and how it was intended to be presented.how we use it is an entirely different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 10 hours ago, VonNoble said: Can you really know yourself without feedback from others? Without seeing how others see us... are we not flat .... missing a dimension as it were? von We receive feed back from birth to grave. This feedback is as much a part of our environment as the air we breathe. That feedback, along with other environmental influences ( to include family and ethnic histories), give us our sense of who we are as well as our sense of self worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchulain Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 i think many define themselves through the auspices of others. but then others determine your self worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 11 hours ago, VonNoble said: Can you really know yourself without feedback from others? You can't really know yourself, any more than you can know the wind. Nothing about you is permanent. Everything about you has changed, is changing, and will change. The self is a cultivated illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 16 hours ago, VonNoble said: Can you really know yourself without feedback from others? Without seeing how others see us... are we not flat .... missing a dimension as it were? von In general terms, I have been harshly misunderstood by others. When I must evaluate, I go with my own perceptions. In religious terms, I have been so badly misunderstood, that I don't care at all what the pious think of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Rev. Calli Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Greetings to you all my sisters and brothers, In my own personal experience, I have come to learn that while I might think I know myself, without hearing from others how they have come to know and understand me, my perception may not always be spot on. Fortunately, I have a wife who is more than happy to point out things about myself that I may not have seen. In solidarity, Rev. Calli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 15 hours ago, mark 45 said: yes you can,even tho it is difficult to explain.like you say "we are the sum of our choices".is it an accurate picture?maybe. feed back can be positive or negetive depending on how it's taken,and how it was intended to be presented.how we use it is an entirely different story. Yes...either of us is the sum of our own choices.... agreed. At times others have helped me to see the impact of the choice in ways i did not anticipate Their feeback helped me to choose more wisely, perhaps, the next time My view of my action -however well intended-was not necessarily accurate ...it was not the take -away of others It is not .... very often It is not about pleasing them ....it is about communicating and acting more affectively Is it likely others help me to better myself, adjust the sails and course correct? Learning from others is a choice von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 14 hours ago, Brother Kaman said: We receive feed back from birth to grave. This feedback is as much a part of our environment as the air we breathe. That feedback, along with other environmental influences ( to include family and ethnic histories), give us our sense of who we are as well as our sense of self worth. BRAVO! von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 14 hours ago, cuchulain said: i think many define themselves through the auspices of others. but then others determine your self worth. Good point. That certainly is one possible scenario. Growth arrives with change. Discovering that our mannerisms are off-putting, our language ineffective our presentation counter-productive ... would all be opportunities to pause and check if that is helpful to us or ridiculous nonsense Either way they helped us. They gave us additional perspectives. Or they provided validation, no? von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 13 hours ago, mererdog said: You can't really know yourself, any more than you can know the wind. Nothing about you is permanent. Everything about you has changed, is changing, and will change. The self is a cultivated illusion. Doesn't ever-changing self exist fully between the breath in and the breath out? von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: In general terms, I have been harshly misunderstood by others. When I must evaluate, I go with my own perceptions. In religious terms, I have been so badly misunderstood, that I don't care at all what the pious think of me. Not carrying what others think is fine. However that that is different than understanding their input is, at times, of use. On occasion another holding a mirror ...spot on center is revealing. Often catching the light on us in angles we cannot reach, maybe von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Rev. Calli said: In my own personal experience, I have come to learn that while I might think I know myself, without hearing from others how they have come to know and understand me, my perception may not always be spot on In solidarity, Rev. Calli Thank you How do you determine when they have it right? von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 hours ago, VonNoble said: Not carrying what others think is fine. However that that is different than understanding their input is, at times, of use. On occasion another holding a mirror ...spot on center is revealing. Often catching the light on us in angles we cannot reach, maybe von The world is awash in bullies and other abusers. Also, fools who mean well, but don't have a clue. I have discovered that giving my power over to others is a mistake. When I was younger, I made that mistake. No more. Sometimes, even I learn from mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 13 hours ago, VonNoble said: Doesn't ever-changing self exist fully between the breath in and the breath out? von "The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao. The Name that can be named is not the eternal Name." Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu. Change is the only constant. I Ching (Book of Change) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 16 hours ago, Rev. Calli said: Greetings to you all my sisters and brothers, In my own personal experience, I have come to learn that while I might think I know myself, without hearing from others how they have come to know and understand me, my perception may not always be spot on. Fortunately, I have a wife who is more than happy to point out things about myself that I may not have seen. In solidarity, Rev. Calli This particular task is also a mother's job. One of my mother's favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: The world is awash in bullies and other abusers. Also, fools who mean well, but don't have a clue. I have discovered that giving my power over to others is a mistake. When I was younger, I made that mistake. No more. Sometimes, even I learn from mistakes. As do I ! Sometimes I didn't realize I made the mistake initially. Sometimes someone explaibs things to me ... I think about it and realize ... geesh....I made a mistake! Somtimes feedback from others helps me to do better. Sometimes I learn from others sharing their mistake... which is good ...I don't have time enough to make all the mistakes myself ( old joke) Hearing feedback is'nt equivalent of handing over control if you life well it can be - but I can't view that as a healthful option in most instances. Whatever you are doing it is clearly working well for you - you seem to be in a good place von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: "The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao. The Name that can be named is not the eternal Name." Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu. Change is the only constant. I Ching (Book of Change) And what of the moment of transference from THIS to THAT.... Pergaps a moment with no name? von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, VonNoble said: And what of the moment of transference from THIS to THAT.... Pergaps a moment with no name? von We have meditation. Some things can not be heard unless we are quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, VonNoble said: As do I ! Sometimes I didn't realize I made the mistake initially. Sometimes someone explaibs things to me ... I think about it and realize ... geesh....I made a mistake! Somtimes feedback from others helps me to do better. Sometimes I learn from others sharing their mistake... which is good ...I don't have time enough to make all the mistakes myself ( old joke) Hearing feedback is'nt equivalent of handing over control if you life well it can be - but I can't view that as a healthful option in most instances. Whatever you are doing it is clearly working well for you - you seem to be in a good place von Thank you. For me, it begins with radical internal honesty. What do I believe? What do I really believe? Not, what I should believe. Or what I would like to believe. Or what I would like to tell others I believe. No. That's crap. What do I really believe? Not much. I have also discovered, that the true nature of my deep beliefs, is subject to drift. I have made a few discoveries. 1. I lack piety. This is not good or bad. It is simply true. I don't care whether or not God exists. That is my truth. 2. I don't know whether or not God exists. That is the truth. My truth. The idea of God's existence seems rather silly. But I could be mistaken. There were times when I did believe. They could come back. I doubt it, but I am inconsistent. 3. At minimum, I do not have an affirmative belief that God exists. 4. I can not be certain of my own beliefs. In the past, I have believed. I prayed. I look back in horror and disdain. I might have a future self looking back at me now -- wondering how I could have been so stupid. Probably not, but maybe. Well, Agnostic seems to fit. So does Atheist. So does Apatheist. For a while, I tried working with Pantheism. In my truth, I discovered that that was dishonest. Labels. In the end, none of them matter. Stream of consciousness. I seem to have drifted off topic. Anything specific need covering? Edited September 23, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.