The Difference

[mererdog]

On 3/24/2017 at 3:14 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Continuing from another thread (No Religion):

What is the difference between a religion, a philosophy, a practice and a church.

I think this could be an interesting conversation.

To my understanding....

A philosophy is an organized system of ideas. It exists as both a way to understand the world and a way to express an understanding.

A practice is a set of ritualized actions. These actions can be considered an obligation to be fulfilled, a way to influence the outside world, and/or a way to effect internal change. 

A religion is an organized system of belief and practice. 

A church is a religious institution (usually Christian in nature), or a building used by one. 

Edited June 26, 2017 by mererdog

[scottedward]

On 6/24/2017 at 8:16 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Persuading people that religion is not important --  at least, not worth fighting over --  might be a hard sell.  People who have the one true God, and the one true path, and the one true Scripture, don't like to compromise.  

 

On 6/24/2017 at 8:53 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

There is one other problem.  If "we" have the "true" path -- then "they" must have a "false" path.  It's a built in binary.  

 

 

I wouldn't think to argue either point. 

Edited June 26, 2017 by scottedward

[Key]

11 hours ago, Dan56 said:

I don't see much difference between religion and philosophy. Christianity is a religion, but most people philosophize about its fundamental soundness prior to becoming a Christian.. Perhaps the difference is that a philosophy is something that a person wonders and speculates about, while a religion is something a person dwells on and commits themselves to.

A church from a biblical perspective, is simply the many membered body of Christ, those who accept and follow Christ are his church. A practice is following an example or belief, Witchcraft is a practice, Hinduism is a practice, even Humanism is a practice, no god required.

I often think that following what Christ taught doesn't necessarily make you religious, no more than following the example of a good parent. Being religious is joining one of the various denominations of Christianity, this defines your allegiance to a group and makes you subordinate to their rules and cause... jmo 

Aye, but therein lies a slight conflict of interest, it seems to me. For in Christianity, even while serving a fellow man, one is subordinate to God only. Else one is following the rules of men and not His. Can't be sure if true of Judaism or Islam, as well, as I don't know those well enough to say.

[Key]

16 hours ago, mark 45 said:

maybe.of the philosophies/religions you listed,buddhism is the only one that does not teach a deity.and if i understand correctly,the norse and greek gods weren't worshiped as they were meant to be emulated.but i could be wrong.as far as wicca,i'm not 100%sure,but you can be wiccan and not worship the goddess/god.

 

i guess if one finds something that is true to them,then it really doesn't matter what others think.but if they find something else that changes what they think,then so be it.

 

 

Emulation was true of the Norse Gods, but I think the opposite of the Greek, though the stories of these were used to teach similar lessons.

[LeopardBoy]

I don't have a problem using the word worship to describe my reconstructed ritual practice to honor the Greek gods (Theoi), daimones, heroes/heroines, and ancestors.  I also use the term religion to describe my practice as a whole, though that's a bit of a modern contrivance as the ancient Greeks originally had no word for religion.  Their spiritual practices were so woven into their culture and identity that the closest word we can come up with is Hellenismos, the way of the Hellenes (Greeks).  Just about every aspect of their life and society had a ritual component, a practice that connected the mundane with the spiritual.

 

Hellenic polytheism is an orthopraxic religion, and thus is focused on correct ritual practice.  It means what one does (and how one does it) matters more than what one's personal beliefs are regarding the nature of the gods, and the nature of their relationship to mortals.  Philosophy is the system of examining and communicating those beliefs, and is intertwined with religious practice and the lessons of myth.  Religion is the ritual practice, philosophy is the belief, and both inform and inspire the other.

 

Church is a word that I don't really use in my practice, except as a shorthand term regarding legal matters.  When referring to a group of worshippers, I normally use the words congregation or community, and for a building I use the English word temple or sometimes the Greek naos.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 hours ago, Key said:

Aye, but therein lies a slight conflict of interest, it seems to me. For in Christianity, even while serving a fellow man, one is subordinate to God only. Else one is following the rules of men and not His. Can't be sure if true of Judaism or Islam, as well, as I don't know those well enough to say.

 

Over spans of time, I keep running into statements with only minor variation:

 

Christianity is not religion.  It's a relationship with God.

(Orthodox) Judaism is not religion.  It is obedience to Torah, which is God's Law.

Islam is not religion.  It is submission to God's will.

 

All those religious people -- who are not practicing religion.  It's odd.  Has "religion" become a bad word?  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

On 6/24/2017 at 10:34 PM, scottedward said:

 

 I think it is the wish of others to feel special, unique, or of the elite that causes about 96% of the world's problems (as relating to religious intolerance or disagreements)

 

If nobody cared what others believed, we'd have less cause to fight over it.

 

I'm having a purely partisan moment in favor of Agnosticism.

 

I've met religious people who raged against non-believers.  I've met Atheists who raged against believers.

 

To my observation, Agnostics don't get so excited.  Not when the basic position is -- "I don't know".  

[cuchulain]

I have been that Atheist who raged against believers...also that pagan that raged against believers, lol.  I think the problem is that it feels like accomplishing something when you can rail at a perceived injustice, or perceived immorality.  It feels like doing something about a problem, but in reality it's burying the problem.  When I railed against it, it always turned out the same.  It was like taking a sledgehammer to a post and slamming it into the ground, all it did was solidify the opponents position.  I think that's because it is human nature to dig in defensively.  

On the topic of the difference, I got to thinking.  How many bombings have you heard of involving someone's philosophy, as opposed to someone's religion?

[Brother Kaman]

It is us against them and G/god is on our side. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to know He has things under control and that our side is His favorite.

[Key]

21 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Over spans of time, I keep running into statements with only minor variation:

 

Christianity is not religion.  It's a relationship with God.

(Orthodox) Judaism is not religion.  It is obedience to Torah, which is God's Law.

Islam is not religion.  It is submission to God's will.

 

All those religious people -- who are not practicing religion.  It's odd.  Has "religion" become a bad word?  

A bad word? Mayhap, only because "extremist" of "religion" make it so.

As for the perspective on the belief systems, interesting enough to seem true to me.

[Rev. Calli]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:43 PM, Dan56 said:

When you read what Christ taught and consider it in an idealistic way, that's a philosophy.
When you listen to what Christ taught and accept it as an absolute truth, its a religion.
Perhaps religion is just taking a philosophy to heart.

Greetings to you my brother,

 

I think you may be on to something, tho I would not limit this to followers of Christ.  A religion can be any belief system that gives an individual's life purpose and meaning.  So religion does not necessarily involve a deity.  

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

On 6/27/2017 at 2:10 PM, cuchulain said:

I have been that Atheist who raged against believers...also that pagan that raged against believers, lol.  I think the problem is that it feels like accomplishing something when you can rail at a perceived injustice, or perceived immorality.  It feels like doing something about a problem, but in reality it's burying the problem.  When I railed against it, it always turned out the same.  It was like taking a sledgehammer to a post and slamming it into the ground, all it did was solidify the opponents position.  I think that's because it is human nature to dig in defensively.  

On the topic of the difference, I got to thinking.  How many bombings have you heard of involving someone's philosophy, as opposed to someone's religion?

 

I can't think of any examples.  Unless Communism counts as philosophy.  

Edited June 28, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Rev. Calli]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I can't think of any examples.  Unless Communism counts as philosophy.  

 

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I can't think of any examples.  Unless Communism counts as philosophy.  

Greetings to  you my brother,

 

Fascism in the many forms it developed in Europe and South American during the early part of the 20th century often involved armed revolutionaries who detested the very concept of communism.

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

[Key]

1 hour ago, Rev. Calli said:

 

Greetings to  you my brother,

 

Fascism in the many forms it developed in Europe and South American during the early part of the 20th century often involved armed revolutionaries who detested the very concept of communism.

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

True. Fascist and Communist are often viewed as the same by those who oppose both, however. So any distinction between them may be lost, especially by the current generation, who in my interactions with them seem still clueless about WWII, as well. So sad.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

48 minutes ago, Key said:

True. Fascist and Communist are often viewed as the same by those who oppose both, however. So any distinction between them may be lost, especially by the current generation, who in my interactions with them seem still clueless about WWII, as well. So sad.

 

Extremists from both ends of the political spectrum, tend to look alike.  

[Key]

14 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Extremists from both ends of the political spectrum, tend to look alike.  

Same could be said of the religious spectrum.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, Key said:

Same could be said of the religious spectrum.

 

Crazy religious people vs. crazy anti-theists?  Yes.  The inability to deal with others.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

On 6/27/2017 at 5:46 PM, Key said:

A bad word? Mayhap, only because "extremist" of "religion" make it so.

As for the perspective on the belief systems, interesting enough to seem true to me.

 

From time to time, I will see a Christian insist that Atheism is a religion.  It is said as an insult -- like having a religion is something shameful.  

 

When this was said -- as an accusation -- to Bill Maher -- he replied that Atheism is religion the way that abstinence is a sex position.  

Edited June 29, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Key]

13 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

From time to time, I will see a Christian insist that Atheism is a religion.  It is said as an insult -- like having a religion is something shameful.  

 

When this was said -- as an accusation -- to Bill Maher -- he replied that Atheism is religion the way that abstinence is a sex position.  

That is a good comparison! 

[Key]

16 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Crazy religious people vs. crazy anti-theists?  Yes.  The inability to deal with others.

 

Yep. Deep thinkers, aren't we? LOL