Being A Solitary Minister

[Hermes Mercurius]

I was wondering how many other solitary ministers there are on these forums? Ministers are often associated with their congregations and role within societies, however I think there is an often overlooked position for the "solitary minister" also, as the quiet observer of the world - the hermit who seeks the sacred silence inside himself.

I am interested in hearing from any other solitary ministers about what they feel their role is.

[scottedward]

I was wondering how many other solitary ministers there are on these forums? Ministers are often associated with their congregations and role within societies, however I think there is an often overlooked position for the "solitary minister" also, as the quiet observer of the world - the hermit who seeks the sacred silence inside himself.

I am interested in hearing from any other solitary ministers about what they feel their role is.

As being 'One of The Hopeful', and the sole minister of this particular faith, I believe my purpose is to set an example for others as to how we should live our lives and/or carry ourselves. The reasoning behind this particular religion is basically that we live in a difficult world, run by a minority that (whether inadvertently or otherwise) work diligently to take Hope away from those with less power or reach. By setting this example, and by establishing that it only takes one to help many, we can prove that we (as a people) can regain the Hope we've lost simply by helping another gain their own.

Nice to meet you.

[mark 45]

my role is to help others in what ever way they need it.

[VonNoble]

I was wondering how many other solitary ministers there are on these forums? Ministers are often associated with their congregations and role within societies, however I think there is an often overlooked position for the "solitary minister" also, as the quiet observer of the world - the hermit who seeks the sacred silence inside himself.

I am interested in hearing from any other solitary ministers about what they feel their role is.

Hello Hermes Mercurius,

Are the two identities mention mutually exclusive, I wonder?

Does not each minister face or find the "sacred silence inside him(her)self?

A role as leader of a congregation does not free one of the interest or obligation to

seek truth within oneself. It may, perhaps, force one to draw to and from the

inside even more to remain centered. Perhaps ( I was going to make a pun about

drawing from an inside straight) (or insight straight) but opted not to make that

the point of it as I think you raised a serious and worthwhile question that

deserves a serious answer.

Thanks for the question to ponder.

von

[Hermes Mercurius]

Von,

You raise a very good point there. I suppose in the end it could be argued that it comes down to a healthy balance between the "Within" and the ""Without" which leads to the inevitable realisation of the illusion of duality and the awakening to but One Reality, beyond all illusion of separation and distinctions.

[emalpaiz]

It matters not if we have a congregation or not. What is important is if we are making the effort to express in our daily life understanding, love, and compassion (ULC). If that is the case the whole world is our congregation. Sometimes the best sermon can be expressed with a sincere smile. Silence can also be very powerful. Just be there for the world.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

[Key]

I see it as each of us ministers have been drawn to a calling, if you will, making our temples to be ourselves. Even Christ had said, "My body is my temple." (Paraphrased, of course.)

So, in this way, if we are true to our beliefs and how it serves others, then that is our role to perform. Each member is the church, a congregation is more like a convention of churches.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Keystrikr

[VonNoble]

I see it as each of us ministers have been drawn to a calling, if you will, making our temples to be ourselves. Even Christ had said, "My body is my temple." (Paraphrased, of course.)

So, in this way, if we are true to our beliefs and how it serves others, then that is our role to perform. Each member is the church, a congregation is more like a convention of churches.

I would agree with you - each of us has an individual choice of response.

Most spiritual paths (if we can allow that term) - most would include service to others

- some would qualify that service.

Service only when you yourself are in balance and do so with proper intentions.

Rather like strapping on your own oxygen mask before attempting to assist another.

It seems to me - the most significant contributions I have ever made in service were

in situations that were a) one on one b) at times I least expected it c) when there was

no real thought or effort required of me (it happened naturally and spontaneously

eh...sorry about the edit thing - I don't know how I managed to "go live" with the post as

I am a dunderhead with technology - nonetheless, it seems the biggest impact to me

and by me - were not done with a large group effort but rather one on one.

Okay, I'm done editing now.

von

Edited December 12, 2015 by VonNoble

[Cornelius]

In my belief system there can be no such thing. Although the definition of "clergy" is also different than the christian worldview entails. That being said there is nothing wrong with it in others. If you feel the need to have others then find them.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Stormbringer

[VonNoble]

Stormbringer,

Hello....I am most curious about your belief system.

Certainly I appreciate learning new things so if you would assist me, please....

You note; " in my belief system there can be no such thing" - to what specifically were you referring?

The idea of "ministers" per se; "ministering to another"; time spent in in introspection or silence with one's self; or was it all of those things - that do not exist on your chosen path.

Obviously you are tolerant of others (kudos to you for that) - so your path is one that allows for

tolerance thereby recognizing that others and other ways exist.

I won't assume that permits you to interact with them or does it? Sorry I haven't been around the Forum to much of late so I am just catching up.

von

[mark 45]

i'm a little curious about that also stormbringer.you have changed"paths" a couple of times that i know of.

and von,it's always great seeing you my friend.

[Cornelius]

Stormbringer,

Hello....I am most curious about your belief system.

Certainly I appreciate learning new things so if you would assist me, please....

You note; " in my belief system there can be no such thing" - to what specifically were you referring?

The idea of "ministers" per se; "ministering to another"; time spent in in introspection or silence with one's self; or was it all of those things - that do not exist on your chosen path.

Obviously you are tolerant of others (kudos to you for that) - so your path is one that allows for

tolerance thereby recognizing that others and other ways exist.

I won't assume that permits you to interact with them or does it? Sorry I haven't been around the Forum to much of late so I am just catching up.

von

I was specifically referring to solitary "ministers." There is no such thing in my belief system. What we have that equates to clergy can only be granted that status by group recognition. That status also only pertains to said group and does not reach beyond it.

What others do is of no concern to me. There is not orthodoxy in my belief system only orthopraxy. It was the ancestors tolerance of other beliefs and belief systems that can be argued to have been their downfall in regards to the christianization of Europe.

It is good to see you back Von.

i'm a little curious about that also stormbringer.you have changed"paths" a couple of times that i know of.

and von,it's always great seeing you my friend.

I am a Germanic Heathen and I've been on this "path" for a little over seven years. It's good to hear from you Mark. I hope things are well.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Stormbringer

[Gruffydd y Dryw]

Hello Hermes,

I am a Druid, a member of the Druid Network and the Order of the Yew. (In the past I have also been a member of OBOD and ADF.) Although I keep in contact with other Druids via the internet, I generally function as a solitary minister. Some Druids do organize into groves, usually small local groups who may or may not designate someone in particular as leader. TDN Druidry tends to be more democratic and non hierarchical than some of the other Druid organizations. As a solitary minister, I have performed legal weddings here in Florida, and in the late 1990's I used to give lectures on Druidry at the local college for the comparative religion class. I work professionally as a counselor/case manager at a mental hospital (I have a B.A. in psychology), and my coworkers know I am a Druid and a ULC minister. I have answered many questions over the years for the curious, have given advice when asked, and have even mentored a Wiccan RN. I am also a Reiki master and have provided healing sessions for coworkers, friends, and family. These are just some of the things I have done in my role as a solitary minister

Edited December 13, 2015 by Gruffydd y Dryw

[VonNoble]

von,it's always great seeing you my friend.

mark 34, you as well - I am always happy to see your postings and know you

have remained steady and true on your path - Namaste, von

[VonNoble]

I was specifically referring to solitary "ministers." There is no such thing in my belief system. What we have that equates to clergy can only be granted that status by group recognition. That status also only pertains to said group and does not reach beyond it.

What others do is of no concern to me. There is not orthodoxy in my belief system only orthopraxy. It was the ancestors tolerance of other beliefs and belief systems that can be argued to have been their downfall in regards to the christianization of Europe.

It is good to see you back Von.

Thanks for the welcome greeting.

I had to go do a bit of quick checking to catch up (orthopraxy being a new word to me) ....also the term Germanic Heathen. All good for me to go and learn some new things. So I thank you.

I can more fully appreciate your POV that the tolerance to incoming other religions, ended up causing a crack in the armor, as it were, to the closed cohesive group before that exposure arrived. As is often the case when a closed society experiences integration. Your point is taken.

Re: the POV that the clergy's authority being derived by acclaim or by consent of the congregation/tribe/community - I would agree that is usually the case. One can be anointed, ordained or titled, maybe even elected to be the leader - but you can only lead or govern if the followers -- in fact, follow the lead.

Coercion may be applied - but is not indefinitely successful. (over-throws, self destruction, implosion and revolution are a few of the eventual outcomes of unwanted leadership)

To that end it seems the path of the assented clergy in your faith has a commonality (granted unique to that one congregation) but a commonality nonetheless to others (actually not that different than the current closed society of the Amish in which each small community adopts its own variation of the faith and elects/chooses their own elders) - there is a loose tie between them but enough variation that each has a slightly different identity.

They too resist infiltration and while blending - stand apart from the larger societies in which they reside

world-wide. They are not just located in Ohio, PA and Iowa these days.

Thanks for the lesson along the way in this thread, Stormbringer. It seems as if you do have a solitary minister in terms of ONE and only one clergy figure for each unique congregation (to the extent those terms convey the loose conceptualization to which the rest of us can grasp it)

von

[LeopardBoy]

The concept of ministry in itself is foreign to my religion as well, and the roles of clergy are very different from what is expected of priests or ministers following a Christian concept of clergy. Hellenic priests and priestesses aren't spiritual counselors or "shepherds to a flock", for one thing. They are caretakers of a temple or other sacred site (as well as the inventory of votive gifts, monies, and other offerings made to the deity or spirit of that specific site), and leaders of rituals related to the specific cult they are elected to serve. In most cases, their terms also have a set limit before another priest or priestess is elected to the position. Only a few very exceptional cults would have had a lifetime position for clergy.

Hellenic priests and priestesses also wouldn't be involved in those domestic functions which modern Christian-influenced culture tends to associate with clergy; such as weddings, naming ceremonies, and funerals. Those functions were the spiritual responsibility of the family itself as part of the domestic cult of each household.

The idea of a solitary minister or priest wouldn't make sense in my religion, since priesthood is bound to a specific cult, and priests and priestesses are elected by the community of worshipers (either from eligible members of the general public or eligible members of a specific family descended from the founders of the cult). The average, everyday Hellenic worshiper is also responsible for making their own offerings and prayers, and approaching deities and daimones in worship for themselves or on behalf of their household and family, so really there is no need for the role of solitary minister or priest in my religion.

Edited December 14, 2015 by LeopardBoy

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

In large measure, I regard myself as a solitary. I am the proverbial cat that won't be herded.

[Brother Kaman]

I am the founder of the Only Church of Michael. I am the sole minister and sole member of the church. Were one to embrace the teachings of the Only Church of Michael, one could not be a member. One would be the sole member of whatever they would choose to call it. After all, to be a part of my belief system, one would have to embrace the fact that they were God.

[VonNoble]

The concept of ministry in itself is foreign to my religion as well, and the roles of clergy are very different from what is expected of priests or ministers following a Christian concept of clergy. Hellenic priests and priestesses aren't spiritual counselors or "shepherds to a flock", for one thing. They are caretakers of a temple or other sacred site (as well as the inventory of votive gifts, monies, and other offerings made to the deity or spirit of that specific site), and leaders of rituals related to the specific cult they are elected to serve. In most cases, their terms also have a set limit before another priest or priestess is elected to the position. Only a few very exceptional cults would have had a lifetime position for clergy.

Hellenic priests and priestesses also wouldn't be involved in those domestic functions which modern Christian-influenced culture tends to associate with clergy; such as weddings, naming ceremonies, and funerals. Those functions were the spiritual responsibility of the family itself as part of the domestic cult of each household.

The idea of a solitary minister or priest wouldn't make sense in my religion, since priesthood is bound to a specific cult, and priests and priestesses are elected by the community of worshipers (either from eligible members of the general public or eligible members of a specific family descended from the founders of the cult). The average, everyday Hellenic worshiper is also responsible for making their own offerings and prayers, and approaching deities and daimones in worship for themselves or on behalf of their household and family, so really there is no need for the role of solitary minister or priest in my religion.

So the purpose of clergy is largely one of administrative duties ? Often i think that would parallel traditional duties for many clergy as things like weddings are largely record keeping and witnessing. Yes they get to stand up and be in the front for the photo shoot in today's version things but really - the VOWS to GOD are offered by the bride and groom - the role of clergy is largely to witness and record the event for the church and for the state.

In the case of funerals there is a "speech" offered to the congregation collectively and certainly a capacity that goes beyond

administrative so I see a divergence between the two there.

I am curious (and applaud) the involvement of the family unit in having responsibility for a large impact upon the children re: the spiritual formation the children.

With the clergy being largely clerical....who is the final authority when spiritual questions arise in the community? If a child of your family marries a child of a family with a similar and yet not quite the same point of view - - - the newly married couple want to formulate a tradition for their new family but find a sticking point between what "he knows" and what "she believes" - how would they resolve that spiritual question? Both families share common views....but not the same view. How would the new couple reconcile what is or is not "proper" in the world of the spiritual for the next generation?

Do they just divide the family (first born follows my system, second born follows your system) or is there some codification upon which the larger community agrees?

Does the role of clergy ever include writing down the governance of spiritual practices for the community? If not -then I am not sure you have more than a bunch of family religions...but not a community/congregation.

If the family has the larger portion of "ministerial duties" for this "religion" where does the moral guidance for each member of the family originate? Is there a written guideline for what mom's do and what dad's do? Are there rules for the obligations of the kids or suggestions of how to teach a child to be moral? How is right and wrong determined?

Are there formal prayers? Are those voiced by everyone? Is there time for private meditation?

And in all of that - who is driving the spiritual train in the home?

Just trying to understand how it works.

von

[VonNoble]

In large measure, I regard myself as a solitary. I am the proverbial cat that won't be herded.

Well I gotta stand and applaud that answer ! Next thought on that though - as that solitary Tom-Cat or

in this case Jon-cat - - - do you reach out to others when you are able to do so?

If you did, you were by some definition ministering to others, yes?

If someone saw that and followed your example - would you not then be leading others?

von

I am the founder of the Only Church of Michael. I am the sole minister and sole member of the church. Were one to embrace the teachings of the Only Church of Michael, one could not be a member. One would be the sole member of whatever they would choose to call it. After all, to be a part of my belief system, one would have to embrace the fact that they were God.

So if I were to join the one and only church of Fred Frump (being the founder and sole member) - and were therefor God, what is my purpose for existence?

At any point that I interact with another being (be that a different God or a mere mortal) is there any obligation upon me to

care for or about the existence of anything or anyone else?

thx

von