Beheaded For Witchcraft And Sorcery

[ThunderChickenCoast2Coast]

That is a very interesting subject.... discussing Hitler's mental state and whether he would qualify for entrance into a mental facility.

I was once in a "Christian Hospital". Which is just a smoke-and-mirrors way of saying a really nice mental hospital. I don't remember ever seeing a single crazy person the whole seven months I was there. Also, when I worked in a Level I Trauma center Emergency Room I took/escorted many patients to "The First Floor"/the mental ward: even some people I knew. None of them acted crazy either.

[mererdog]

God takes all the worry out of doing that by doing it for us... laying a sure foundation for what is good and what is evil.

God has never spoken to me, and people all over the world disagree about what God says about right and wrong. So I have no real option other than to make my own moral determinations.

[Pete]

That is a very interesting subject.... discussing Hitler's mental state and whether he would qualify for entrance into a mental facility.

I was once in a "Christian Hospital". Which is just a smoke-and-mirrors way of saying a really nice mental hospital. I don't remember ever seeing a single crazy person the whole seven months I was there. Also, when I worked in a Level I Trauma center Emergency Room I took/escorted many patients to "The First Floor"/the mental ward: even some people I knew. None of them acted crazy either.

There are many mental health conditions but crazy is not one of them. It is a lay term and not a clinical one. The question was - was Hitler in full mind when he killed the Jews and I would have to say yes. He wanted to unify his people in Germany against a common foe and it matter little for him who it was. He used the prejudice against the Jewish people and refused to pay the payments for the first world war which had left Germany destitute. It made him popular and that his all he wanted. Would he of been fit to stand trial then and I would have to say yes. He fell in love with power and wanted to ever unify the people out of poverty and went to any lengths to do this. In some ways I can see why he was so angry. The first world war had been a stupid war and for no really good reason caused by a set of macho countries causing paranoia in the other by each flexing their muscles. It took one spark and millions died. Germany took the blame and Hitler did not like that. He was then on a mission. It was the lengths he was prepared to go to that shock the world and killed so many Jews, Gypsy's, JWs mentally ill people, gay people and his opponents to their death. So many others who had to stop him.

Yes I think he knew what he was doing and Yes I think he was fit to trial. In the end he was low in mood and ranting because he knew it was over and his country had again been decimated again. He was (IMO) a most evil man who was prepared to do anything to get what he wanted and so many paid for his actions.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Pete

[Brother Kaman]

Then by your "reasoning" Hitler was justified because he did not consider it evil to murder Jews. He even made it legal. Therefore if my religion is as Hitler's was I would be within my religious rights to murder any Jewish people on this forum... and you would have to accept that it was not evil for me to do so. Do you see a point I am trying to make? Without an unchanging Moral Standard [from God] man will always do what is right in his own eyes. And that will be different throughout the world.... millions of different definitions of what is evil and what is good. God takes all the worry out of doing that by doing it for us... laying a sure foundation for what is good and what is evil.

Never said he was justified, ObedEdom. Never said he did not deserve death or worse. I said he was insane, not evil. Child molesters are not evil but also deserve death.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Brother Kaman

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

How do we consistently, and without partiality, define what is evil?

There are some things -- music, art, pornography -- which can be recognized but not defined.

[Key]

We can define only what we know, sense, and experience. We attribute definitions to intangibles that we otherwise would not be able to simply because man has a need to grasp at the unknown and doesn't like not knowing. Because they are intangibles, everyone's sense of the definition may be different.

Art, music, and pornography are defined according to one's personal taste in what is acceptable to them and what is not.

Evil is an intangible. We can not see it, may not sense it, and may not personally experience it, therefore try to define it by other means, such as actions and beliefs. That is why folks view evil differently for different reasons. But, the common remains: what is acceptable and what is not.

[Pete]

Never said he was justified, ObedEdom. Never said he did not deserve death or worse. I said he was insane, not evil. Child molesters are not evil but also deserve death.

Here again is an issue. Child molesting is not an insanity. Its putting their sexual needs before the suffering of children. We may not agree on the point but we both agree it is very wrong and we do not need a bible to tell us that. In fact in bible days getting married at 13 was not unusual. It would be very frown on by both our countries now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/01/dsm-pedophilia-mental-disorder-paraphilia_n_4184878.html

Edited August 17, 2015 by Pete

[cuchulain]

Humans are perfectly capable of defining what is evil without spiritual scripture to rely upon, otherwise the people writing the scripture in the first place would have absolutely no frame of reference as to what inspiration they were following, now would they? They would be unable to recognize the difference between good and evil, by that argument, and so unable to know whether they were listening to the devil or to god, yes? Because, before it was written, they didn't have scripture to tell them, now did they? They had to make their own judgement call about what voice was speaking to them, or where the inspiration for the bible itself came from, without having any scripture to fall back on. Assuming, of course, that such beings exist, which is a huge assumption in my view.

[Dan56]

Humans are perfectly capable of defining what is evil without spiritual scripture to rely upon,

I agree,.. Its no big puzzle, evil is bad and good is good.

[Brother Kaman]

Here again is an issue. Child molesting is not an insanity. Its putting their sexual needs before the suffering of children. We may not agree on the point but we both agree it is very wrong and we do not need a bible to tell us that. In fact in bible days getting married at 13 was not unusual. It would be very frown on by both our countries now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/01/dsm-pedophilia-mental-disorder-paraphilia_n_4184878.html

Didn't say child molesters are insane. I said they deserve death.

[Pete]

Some do and some do not (imo). There are those who try to kill themselves just to try to make the feelings go away. Some seek help but others do not.

Those who do not seek help, I have little time for.

It is a horrid crime, I think we all agree.

[cuchulain]

Sometimes, Keystrikr, religious or philosophical views can override what the average person would know was good or evil. Then they try to claim that their view is what is common sense after all.

[ThunderChickenCoast2Coast]

Never said he was justified, ObedEdom. Never said he did not deserve death or worse. I said he was insane, not evil. Child molesters are not evil but also deserve death.

Child molesters are evil.

[Brother Kaman]

Child molesters are evil.

Once again, evil only exists in a religious context. Without religion one is only behaving badly and in conflict with the laws of the society in which one lives.

[Pete]

I get your point Brother but I do not know. Describing Hitler and what he did as the actions of a bad boy just does not ring it for me. Some how a life form of the biggest and deepest sewer of the universe or Just evil has more ring for me whether its religious or not. . Maybe some religious saying have become just public speak and lose their religious connotation in the community over time.

[Key]

Sometimes, Keystrikr, religious or philosophical views can override what the average person would know was good or evil. Then they try to claim that their view is what is common sense after all.

This could be true. Could also be true that one may have conflicting views among the personal, religious, and/or philosophical. Then things get really interesting, no?

[cuchulain]

As I have said before, friend, people are stupid. Their heads are filled with all sorts of facts and tidbits and pieces of information, most of which is wrong, and they will base a lot of things on all that wrong information, believing either because they want to believe it or because they are afraid that that is the truth. I first encountered this idea, by the way, in a fiction book by terry goodkind, just to give proper credit. Religious people will believe their philosophy, even when it differs from their church, because they want to believe it is true the way they see it, or they are afraid that their philosophy is true. That is, people will make excuses to justify their actions when their actions go against what they allegedly believe.

[Key]

As I have said before, friend, people are stupid. Their heads are filled with all sorts of facts and tidbits and pieces of information, most of which is wrong, and they will base a lot of things on all that wrong information, believing either because they want to believe it or because they are afraid that that is the truth. I first encountered this idea, by the way, in a fiction book by terry goodkind, just to give proper credit. Religious people will believe their philosophy, even when it differs from their church, because they want to believe it is true the way they see it, or they are afraid that their philosophy is true. That is, people will make excuses to justify their actions when their actions go against what they allegedly believe.

Perhaps, out of irony, we should start the Church of Common Sense, since, inevitably, people often get that wrong, too. We'll call the congregation, "Commoners." Haha

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Perhaps, out of irony, we should start the Church of Common Sense, since, inevitably, people often get that wrong, too. We'll call the congregation, "Commoners." Haha

Maybe not. I suspect the people with common sense would decline membership. Leaving a church roster of those without common sense. Amusing, but futile.

[Key]

Maybe not. I suspect the people with common sense would decline membership. Leaving a church roster of those without common sense. Amusing, but futile.

Putting it that way, reminds me of Westboro. 'Course, in that case, it'd require lack of common decency, too. Just my perspective.