There Is Always One

[Pete]

There is always one who puts their mouth into gear without knowing what they are talking about. Came across this:-

See:- http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Universal-Life-Church-The-TRUE-ONE-Beware-the-CULT-ONE.html

We have millions of members from a broad spectrum of faiths and view points and yes some very earnest Christians and according to this guy we are also all a pagan cult. Being called pagan has no problems for me but on this - Well

Edited March 30, 2015 by Pete

[RabbiO]

It doesn't really matter, but all the ULC stuff he has his undies in a knot over comes the Monastery.org website.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Wow. On top of everything else -- they are targeting the Monastery.

[Rev Douglas Trouten]

What I find funny is by their reasoning wouldn't that mean that the Mormons, Presbyterians, Baptists, Pentecosts, Lutherans, etc... are not "Churches" as they "don't teach the word of Christ" (as laid out by the Catholic Church), but pagan religions since they aren't part of the Catholic Church? What about for the Catholic Church you have the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Catholics, which one is the real church and which one is a Pagan pretender, masquerading as a Church?

Sad thing is whoever wrote that probably doesn't realize or they choose to ignore the fact that Jesus Christ wasn't a Christina but a Jew, and he was routinely refereed to by the title of Rabbi. Christianity is a off-shoot of the Jewish religion, based off of one Rabbi's teachings, one of which was the acceptance of others no matter what their beliefs. He says that because Kirby was Illiterate, and hints that because of that Kirby was a pagan, historically how many priests/preachers/Christian Holy Men (and women) were also illiterate? Probably more then you can count, Most of them probably preached and quoted the bible verses from memory. What about these "Christian" ministers who are actually leaders of a cult (David Koresh and Jim Jones just to name two), brainwashing their congregation and manipulating them into doing what they want? Or those "Christian" ministers who lie, cheat, steal, sexually molest, etc...? I also find it funny that the author of that page/site doesn't have any contact info on that page or even the site, though if they do it isn't easily found looking through the sites pages.

When you get down to it any religious organization is a cult.

According to Merriam- Webster:

The Full Definition of CULT

1

: formal religious veneration : worship

2

: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

3

: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

4

: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

5

a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

Going by this Christianity is a cult based on definition 1, 2 and 5.

[Pete]

Does not that definition make the ULC not a cult as we have no formal beliefs or ritual or adherence.

[Key]

Guy (generic term, could have been a gal) obviously was a slacker when it came to research. These days any new church or religion has to jump through legal hoops to be recognized and stand on its own.

Also, all major religions today had their start as a "cult" following.

Last point, if this person is "Christian", they have greatly sinned as well. Making judgements that aren't his to make.

"Pagan" has become generic to the unitiated or uneducated on the subject.

It's funny they didn't have the courage to place any contact info, yet make such bold statements about a subject they clearly don't get.

[Rev Douglas Trouten]

We (the ULC) according to the definition of Cult would be one using definition part 3. Then again as I pointed out if you go by the definition of Cult any and all religions are technically Cults. The real question to ask it the cult (the ULC, Catholic (excluding those bad apples in the group that have done shameful things and then tried to hide it}, Judaism, Hindu, Baptist {not counting those Westboro Baptist loons of course}, Islam {again not counting the nut jobs who taint the religions reputation}, etc...) an extremist cult such as the Thugee Cult from India, ISIS/Al Qaeda/Branch Dividians (David Koresh's group that dies in the Waco, TX incident in the 90's)/etc...

Then again for a cult if you want to get down to it your sports fans or fans of a movie/book series/tv show (the term fan as in a fan of the New York Yankees or a fan of the tv show Top Gear comes from the word fanatic {though most people don't realize this they think fanatics are only people like the members of terrorist groups or cult members such as the Branch Dividians) who are willing to start fights when you insult their team could be considered cultists (and again Fanatics which the term fan comes from).

It is funny that they are hiding behind the anonymity of a webpage and not posting any contact info. People seem to use the internet and the anonymity that it can provide to say things that they otherwise wouldn't have the courage to say in front of someone. They use the internet to hide and start things knowing that due to the fact that they post it anonymously they don't have to be responsible for their actions, which in fact they should be held accountable. These people like the author of that page are typically narrow minded individuals who even when presented with cold hard facts will still try to deny the facts and call you a liar since the truth doesn't fit into their idea of what they (erroneously) believe is true.

[emalpaiz]

We should feel honored. In its early stages Christianity was considered something terrible. What happens is that they fear us. We have grasped the spirit of the times: Freedom and Ethical Living. We are a community of real people with differemt ideas, and we are able to live in harmony. There are many Christians among us who have learned the true meaning of "love thy neighbor as yourself'. That neighbor could be a Buddhist, an Agnostic, a Jew, an Atheist, a Panentheist, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Gay person, a Lesbian... We have learned or are learning the true meaning of love. They have not learned yet that we in our strange ways are becoming a family filled with Understanding, Love, and Compassion... U.L.C.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

(A Proud Father of a Gay Son)

Edited March 31, 2015 by emalpaiz

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

We should feel honored. In its early stages Christianity was considered something terrible. What happens is that they fear us. We have grasped the spirit of the times: Freedom and Ethical Living. We are a community of real people with differemt ideas, and we are able to live in harmony. There are many Christians among us who have learned the true meaning of "love thy neighbor as yourself'. That neighbor could be a Buddhist, an Agnostic, a Jew, an Atheist, a Panentheist, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Gay person, a Lesbian... We have learned or are learning the true meaning of love. They have not learned yet that we in our strange ways are becoming a family filled with Understanding, Love, and Compassion... U.L.C.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

(A Proud Father of a Gay Son)

Thank you. I am pleased to be part of a church that has a place for all of us -- as we are.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Pete]

We should feel honored. In its early stages Christianity was considered something terrible. What happens is that they fear us. We have grasped the spirit of the times: Freedom and Ethical Living. We are a community of real people with differemt ideas, and we are able to live in harmony. There are many Christians among us who have learned the true meaning of "love thy neighbor as yourself'. That neighbor could be a Buddhist, an Agnostic, a Jew, an Atheist, a Panentheist, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Gay person, a Lesbian... We have learned or are learning the true meaning of love. They have not learned yet that we in our strange ways are becoming a family filled with Understanding, Love, and Compassion... U.L.C.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

(A Proud Father of a Gay Son)

Well said Luis. Thank you for reminding me what is important here.

[cuchulain]

I forget the source, but "you shall judge a man by his foes as well as by his friends"...

[Dan56]

"[5] Apparently the Universal Life (Cult) never lost it's appeal to illiterate and even STUPID people!"

I liked this particular insight.. How do all you illiterate people post on this board?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Dan56

[RabbiO]

"[5] Apparently the Universal Life (Cult) never lost it's appeal to illiterate and even STUPID people!"

I liked this particular insight.. How do all you illiterate people post on this board?

Personally, I dictate everything to my secretary Fawzo, but I'm hoping to learn the alphabet soon.

[Brother Kaman]

I used a dikshunery oncet to figger thins out but somebody done tooken it.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I was also amused by the ownership of the word "church."

[Pete]

It is just an ill informed attack on the ULC.

As for the founder being illiterate part I think you would find Kirby achieved a lot for someone who this guy calls illiterate. I guess if he had stayed a pentecostal minister then he would be seen as well educated. It is just bias twaddle from this guy. Even then there is no evidence that Jesus was literate or could read and write. There is nothing written by him personally or statement he read something and yet for many he has have respect even from this guy. He feels it right to attack others and call them illiterate for not agreeing with him.

As I understand the word Church it refers to an assembly and is therefore not owned by Christians alone. It comes from the greek word Ekklesia for an assembly, congregation, of meeting house. It is not exclusive to Christianity and rightly used by the ULC.

He says the ULC is a Pagan cult and yet the ULC is open to all faiths and viewpoints including Christianity. Does he think the Christians on this forum are all Pagans? If he only read a bit about Paganism he may then have more respect than to try to use it as a term to insult someone, but my guess this guy has no idea about Paganism or any other faith group for that matter. He has not spoken to members of the forum or even the Christians here. So how does he know what constitutes the membership here. He says the UlC ordination is not legal and yet it is and this is even so in the few states where they do not allow ULC members to do a marriage ceremony. One does not need legal permission to call themselves a religious minister.

It does seem he bases his idea of the ULC on the monastery but uses the term globally. He invites people to consult him for advice. I really think not so as I do not think he knows what he is talking about.

.

[Dan56]

Even then there is no evidence that Jesus was literate or could read and write. There is nothing written by him personally or statement he read something and yet for many he has have respect even from this guy.

There is biblical support which suggest Jesus was literate (Luke 4:16-20). But to your point, the attack on ULC was exaggerated and reduced to insults. I'm fine with someone not recognizing ULC as an official "church", but the writer's objective was to denigrate people he doesn't agree with, which is one of the very tenets that ULC opposes. And his reference to ULC as a cult is ridiculous since cults share the exact same belief. If we were a cult, I would have been shunned or excommunicated long ago

.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

It is just an ill informed attack on the ULC.

As for the founder being illiterate part I think you would find Kirby achieved a lot for someone who this guy calls illiterate. I guess if he had stayed a pentecostal minister then he would be seen as well educated. It is just bias twaddle from this guy. Even then there is no evidence that Jesus was literate or could read and write. There is nothing written by him personally or statement he read something and yet for many he has have respect even from this guy. He feels it right to attack others and call them illiterate for not agreeing with him.

As I understand the word Church it refers to an assembly and is therefore not owned by Christians alone. It comes from the greek word Ekklesia for an assembly, congregation, of meeting house. It is not exclusive to Christianity and rightly used by the ULC.

He says the ULC is a Pagan cult and yet the ULC is open to all faiths and viewpoints including Christianity. Does he think the Christians on this forum are all Pagans? If he only read a bit about Paganism he may then have more respect than to try to use it as a term to insult someone, but my guess this guy has no idea about Paganism or any other faith group for that matter. He has not spoken to members of the forum or even the Christians here. So how does he know what constitutes the membership here. He says the UlC ordination is not legal and yet it is and this is even so in the few states where they do not allow ULC members to do a marriage ceremony. One does not need legal permission to call themselves a religious minister.

It does seem he bases his idea of the ULC on the monastery but uses the term globally. He invites people to consult him for advice. I really think not so as I do not think he knows what he is talking about.

.

Many a good church -- and religion -- has been persecuted by it's government. In church matters, legal does not mean legitimate. Legitimate does not mean legal.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Pete]

We do not know Dan if Luke is accurate although I acknowledge you strongly believe it.

As for other points I think we are a church or assembly of people. However your latter point is (imo) true of many of us. It is this mix of people and views that gives such opportunity to ULC members to learn and grow. We are not afraid to tackle difficult questions straight on.

Many a good church -- and religion -- has been persecuted by it's government. In church matters, legal does not mean legitimate. Legitimate does not mean legal.

true in my opinion. Edited April 3, 2015 by Pete

[Atwater Vitki]

Man, if there is one thing that can sure show the brotherhood and unity here...it's an attack on the ULC by some incredibly ignorant nincompoop! Anyone that truly knows anything about us could shoot holes all through this person's rambling nonsense....and that simply shows what this attack is all about...judgment, ignorance and failure.

Since all I got was ("Thou shall not steal" Exodos 20:15) when clicking on anything at that site, I wasn't able to contact this person to congratulate them on a job so incredibly well done of showcasing one's own bias and opinionated rhetoric. All we can do is love and pray for this person for s/he obviously knows not what s/he does!

Blessings of Peace,