cuchulain Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Indeed, it seems to me like analytical thinking incorporates debate, and with the multitude of debates about the authenticity of the bible, the veracity of its claims, etc...well, it seems to me that those of faith get a mental work out whenever those of no faith debate with them, and vice versa. I think in that light, spirituality increases analytical thinking in some ways. Johnathan, as I said, I apologize. Had a bad day, and was taking things way too personally, sorry to say. I agree that the study is too vague. How exactly does a person measure another persons spirituality? Is it a Christian or Muslim or Druid doing the measuring, and if so are they biased by their own views? Of course its a biased study. I can't quite wrap around how one would go about making an unbiased study on this particular subject. And is there even a real connection? Kind of like saying I know a lot of people who eat spaghetti and then get in car accidents. The two aren't necessarily functions of each other, it could just be coincidence. Edited February 28, 2015 by cuchulain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atwater Vitki Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Indeed, it seems to me like analytical thinking incorporates debate, and with the multitude of debates about the authenticity of the bible, the veracity of its claims, etc...well, it seems to me that those of faith get a mental work out whenever those of no faith debate with them, and vice versa. I think in that light, spirituality increases analytical thinking in some ways. Johnathan, as I said, I apologize. Had a bad day, and was taking things way too personally, sorry to say. I agree that the study is too vague. How exactly does a person measure another persons spirituality? Is it a Christian or Muslim or Druid doing the measuring, and if so are they biased by their own views? Of course its a biased study. I can't quite wrap around how one would go about making an unbiased study on this particular subject. And is there even a real connection? Kind of like saying I know a lot of people who eat spaghetti and then get in car accidents. The two aren't necessarily functions of each other, it could just be coincidence. Whoa, you too? I keep telling folks spaghetti is not a "good eat while driving" food! But on a serious ♪....So we get a secular person to administer the litmus test about religion...oh wait, no, they would be a bit swayed by the intangibilities.Of course an atheist wouldn't do either because of their own bias toward such silly beliefs.Or we...no, ut uh, that wouldn't do it so...ah... or maybe... doh....I !I honestly do not believe there is any feasible manner in which to calculate Belief, Faith or Religious Conviction, because it is such a personal thing. And...ah HA! Personal thing! Perhaps that is the crux of the entire issue and gee wiz wolligers Wally, all folks need to let that happen is tolerance. A prime example or two of intolerance are the killing of Avijit Roy or the faceless extremes of "Jihad John" or ISIS which seems to have taken the place of Al Quaida on the most hated list for America. Hate and kill the things we don't agree with seems to be the "Commandments" from the various "true Gods", really? Is that truly what their "God" is telling them or is that the age old misinterpretation of His word that has gone on for millennia?War is war, killing is killing and if we are not to murder then outlaw war, outlaw hate crimes, outlaw everything that we as a society don't agree with....oh yeah, we already have done that haven't we!?!Bad day or not cuchulain, I'll bet ya didn't roll out of bed and grab a machete and lop your neighbor's head off! I'm also pretty sure you didn't send a RPG down the running lights of a UN troop carrier, burn the Muslim family down the street to death or execute a Buddhist this morning....all current headlines that example intolerance each and every day of our existence here on planet Earth.Blessings of Peace,...and in closing...the comment below from Carl Sagan was posted as a reply to one article on Avijit Roy. I repost it as it expresses some pretty in-depth thinking and demonstrate a large volume of tolerance.From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known. - Carl Saganquote from "miguel b." in comments: (Yahoo! 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Seeker Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 ...A prime example or two of intolerance are the killing of Avijit Roy or the faceless extremes of "Jihad John" or ISIS which seems to have taken the place of Al Quaida on the most hated list for America....Surely you are mis-remembering, comrade Atwater. America has always been at war with ISIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Indeed, it seems to me like analytical thinking incorporates debate, and with the multitude of debates about the authenticity of the bible, the veracity of its claims, etc...well, it seems to me that those of faith get a mental work out whenever those of no faith debate with them, and vice versa. I think in that light, spirituality increases analytical thinking in some ways. Johnathan, as I said, I apologize. Had a bad day, and was taking things way too personally, sorry to say. I agree that the study is too vague. How exactly does a person measure another persons spirituality? Is it a Christian or Muslim or Druid doing the measuring, and if so are they biased by their own views? Of course its a biased study. I can't quite wrap around how one would go about making an unbiased study on this particular subject. And is there even a real connection? Kind of like saying I know a lot of people who eat spaghetti and then get in car accidents. The two aren't necessarily functions of each other, it could just be coincidence. No problem. All is well.I don't want to try and make categories for spirituality. It's too much like trying to define music. Having said that, different types of music produce different results. If I listen to Mozart, I'm going to feel cheerful. If I listen to Military music, I will come away with a different effect.A Yogi who goes into deep meditation -- basks in "the presence" -- becomes "one with all" -- is not going to fly planes into buildings. The people who did fly planes into the World Trade Center thought they were being spiritual.I understand trying to be inclusive and not trying to make a lot of distinctions. Sadly, if we throw everything into the same cook pot -- what emerges is nothing I want on my plate. It isn't useful. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 No problem. All is well.I don't want to try and make categories for spirituality. It's too much like trying to define music. Having said that, different types of music produce different results. If I listen to Mozart, I'm going to feel cheerful. If I listen to Military music, I will come away with a different effect.A Yogi who goes into deep meditation -- basks in "the presence" -- becomes "one with all" -- is not going to fly planes into buildings. The people who did fly planes into the World Trade Center thought they were being spiritual.I understand trying to be inclusive and not trying to make a lot of distinctions. Sadly, if we throw everything into the same cook pot -- what emerges is nothing I want on my plate. It isn't useful. IMOOn another note, if those supposed martyrs that crashed the planes were hopeful of obtaining the 72 virgins in paradise, wouldn't that have made them lustful, which is also supposed to be a no no in Islam? Seems a no win situation for them then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 On another note, if those supposed martyrs that crashed the planes were hopeful of obtaining the 72 virgins in paradise, wouldn't that have made them lustful, which is also supposed to be a no no in Islam? Seems a no win situation for them then.I regard the sales pitch for what it is. Take a horny young man who is too poor to get a wife. Tell him about all the tail waiting for him in paradise. Instant martyr recruit. Of course, when he gets there, he might find his favorite parts are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panpareil Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 The young men are not all poor. Some are just angry enough to risk death to destroy our civilization and replace it with a global caliphate. It is not heaven they are looking toward but a society where they are significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 The young men are not all poor. Some are just angry enough to risk death to destroy our civilization and replace it with a global caliphate. It is not heaven they are looking toward but a society where they are significant.They were significant on 9/11 only because they committed mass murder and riled a nation to action. But who can remember their names or what they looked like. No, they themselves have become like a forgotten past where the action is remembered but the players are anonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 They were significant on 9/11 only because they committed mass murder and riled a nation to action. But who can remember their names or what they looked like. No, they themselves have become like a forgotten past where the action is remembered but the players are anonymous.Are you speaking for the Muslim world when you say the names or what they have looked like have been forgotten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Are you speaking for the Muslim world when you say the names or what they have looked like have been forgotten?Good point. But I believe in general, and referring to events as history, people may mainly remember the masterminds and not the pawns used.I certainly don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Good point. But I believe in general, and referring to events as history, people may mainly remember the masterminds and not the pawns used.I certainly don't.History is written by the victors and, remember, the war is not over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Good point. But I believe in general, and referring to events as history, people may mainly remember the masterminds and not the pawns used.I certainly don't.It is hard to remember the faces of terrorists, who cover their faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 It is hard to remember the faces of terrorists, who cover their faces.Yes. But not all cover their faces. Like the 9/11 hijackers and the shoelace bomber (remember him?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes. But not all cover their faces. Like the 9/11 hijackers and the shoelace bomber (remember him?).I remember the incident. Also, the underwear bomber. I don't remember them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I remember the incident. Also, the underwear bomber. I don't remember them. I had forgotten about him, too. Which further proves my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I had forgotten about him, too. Which further proves my point.That only proves that you don't look to them as martyrs. Could be that the Muslim world remembers them quite differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songster Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Shoe Bomber and the Underwear Bomber weren't martyrs... You have to die for the "cause" to be a martyr. If you don't die in the effort, if you're remembered at all, it's as a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Shoe Bomber and the Underwear Bomber weren't martyrs... You have to die for the "cause" to be a martyr. If you don't die in the effort, if you're remembered at all, it's as a failure.The latest sick joke on Facebook.Where do suicide bombers go after death? Everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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