Being selfish has some rewards

[VonNoble]

Whatever I have evolved into spiritually - it is a completely mishmash of many teachers over time.

 And it is most definitely a work in progress (heavy emphasis on the word work in all that.)

 

The few things I have picked up..when laid end to end...in my mind (whirring most of the time like a blender) 

....the pattern that emerges is; being selfish can actually be beneficial? 

 

*  When I tune out everything else - focusing only on my breath - my blood pressure does go down (it is all about me) 

 

* When I give anything away - it is not necessarily noble or charitable - I have come to know that I will get that and more back.....it immediately lets me feel good so it is not always for others that we are "generous" (it sort of is its own reward)

 

* I cannot help anyone else if I don't take care of myself so I am learning to be selfish with my time

in order to do more - I keep a bit more for myself

 

* When I choose the moral high ground I have far less strife

(don't lie = clear conscience) (don't steal/cheat = no guilt) 

 

It might be that the whole thing is incredibly simple.  

We may have to forget what we were taught and observe what works.  Maybe?   

 

Anyone else out there seeing anything similar in your life?   Is less more?

 

 

von

 

 

[cuchulain]

i think more peace of mind came to me when I realized I had been following others instead of leading myself, even that my "nonconformity" had ultimately been a vaneer that covered who I am.  there is much wisdom in the words of others, but it must be processed internally and adapted to fit the self before we can reap the benefits of it, i think. 

[Brother Kaman]

I think I was about 14 years old when I came to realize that I had to exist before anything could matter to me which in turn led me to believe that I had to be the most important person in the world from my perspective. That doesn't mean I would not be willing to die for another but if I did do so, nothing else would ever matter.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, VonNoble said:

Whatever I have evolved into spiritually - it is a completely mishmash of many teachers over time.

 And it is most definitely a work in progress (heavy emphasis on the word work in all that.)

 

The few things I have picked up..when laid end to end...in my mind (whirring most of the time like a blender) 

....the pattern that emerges is; being selfish can actually be beneficial? 

 

*  When I tune out everything else - focusing only on my breath - my blood pressure does go down (it is all about me) 

 

* When I give anything away - it is not necessarily noble or charitable - I have come to know that I will get that and more back.....it immediately lets me feel good so it is not always for others that we are "generous" (it sort of is its own reward)

 

* I cannot help anyone else if I don't take care of myself so I am learning to be selfish with my time

in order to do more - I keep a bit more for myself

 

* When I choose the moral high ground I have far less strife

(don't lie = clear conscience) (don't steal/cheat = no guilt) 

 

It might be that the whole thing is incredibly simple.  

We may have to forget what we were taught and observe what works.  Maybe?   

 

Anyone else out there seeing anything similar in your life?   Is less more?

 

 

von

 

 

 

 

Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies as they love themselves.

 

What does this count for if you don't love yourself?  Meditate.  Keep your blood pressure under control.  Then take your improved health and serve the needs of others.  If you don't take care of your own needs, who are you going to help?

 

Like breath mediation.  Help yourself, Help others.  Help yourself, Help others.  

 

Balance.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Dan56]

7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies as they love themselves.

 

 

Hey now,  lets try to keep that religious crap off this thread  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Hey now,  lets try to keep that religious crap off this thread  

 

 

If  you insist.  

[VonNoble]

On 10/8/2017 at 1:09 PM, Brother Kaman said:

I think I was about 14 years old when I came to realize that I had to exist before anything could matter to me which in turn led me to believe that I had to be the most important person in the world from my perspective. That doesn't mean I would not be willing to die for another but if I did do so, nothing else would ever matter.

It took me way longer than it took you to catch on... so I am officially impressed 

 

After I really sat back and considered not just what you said but the impact upon a life to realize that ( esp at a young age)....I really appreciate your sharing it... it comes bringing hope with it

 

von

[Brother Kaman]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

It took me way longer than it took you to catch on... so I am officially impressed 

 

After I really sat back and considered not just what you said but the impact upon a life to realize that ( esp at a young age)....I really appreciate your sharing it... it comes bringing hope with it

 

von

Don't get too hopeful. Just because one can intellectualize  a concept does not necessarily mean one can live it. When I was in the second grade, my brother and I were walking home from school. As we approached a church, I picked up a rock and threw it, striking the church wall. My brother told me I would burn in hell for striking  G/god's house. I already ,knew that G/god did not sleep or take his meals there. It still took me most of my adult life to realize the Christian (and later other religion's) G/god's could not exist as described by their holy books. Sorry if that last part does not fit the topic. I used it only as an illustration.

[VonNoble]

17 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

Don't get too hopeful. Just because one can intellectualize  a concept does not necessarily mean one can live it. When I was in the second grade, my brother and I were walking home from school. As we approached a church, I picked up a rock and threw it, striking the church wall. My brother told me I would burn in hell for striking  G/god's house. I already ,knew that G/god did not sleep or take his meals there. It still took me most of my adult life to realize the Christian (and later other religion's) G/god's could not exist as described by their holy books. Sorry if that last part does not fit the topic. I used it only as an illustration.

 

I think it fits the topic nicely.   Your awareness and evolution of thought is about self discovery. 

Several years ago I read somewhere (possibly on this Forum) that as we mature as human beings - our understanding of "god/God" changes right along with us.    You just seemed to get there faster (in chronologic years) than many of us - good for you. 

 

In that growth process, we might for example be comforted by the all benevolent and forgiving father. 

Later we are less dependent on the concept of God/god.

Eventually we grow up (if we work at it) and we realize that WE are responsible for happy in our lives.

TOO....at that point - we also see the other side of things and take responsibility fully for our actions.  Each choice has a consequence and causes, in some way - whatever happens next. 

 

Is that about right or how you see it too?    

 

von

[Brother Kaman]

9 hours ago, VonNoble said:

 

I think it fits the topic nicely.   Your awareness and evolution of thought is about self discovery. 

Several years ago I read somewhere (possibly on this Forum) that as we mature as human beings - our understanding of "god/God" changes right along with us.    You just seemed to get there faster (in chronologic years) than many of us - good for you. 

 

In that growth process, we might for example be comforted by the all benevolent and forgiving father. 

Later we are less dependent on the concept of God/god.

Eventually we grow up (if we work at it) and we realize that WE are responsible for happy in our lives.

TOO....at that point - we also see the other side of things and take responsibility fully for our actions.  Each choice has a consequence and causes, in some way - whatever happens next. 

 

Is that about right or how you see it too?    

 

von

I have no memory of following the steps outlined above to come to where I am now but I do know that every action and decision I have made thru out my life has led me where I am now and there have been many consequences along the way as a result of those actions and decisions. Many of my decisions have led to actions that I may not necessarily be proud of but I am happy to be where I am in life and have no regrets.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

God belief creates problems in philosophy.

 

How could God -- All Good, All Knowing, All Powerful -- How could God possibly have allowed this to happen?

 

Take God out of the equation and things become much more simple.  Nobody let this happen.  That's life.

 

For me, tragedy without God, is much easier to live with, than tragedy with God.  None of that crap about God being mysterious.  

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

18 hours ago, VonNoble said:

 

I think it fits the topic nicely.   Your awareness and evolution of thought is about self discovery. 

Several years ago I read somewhere (possibly on this Forum) that as we mature as human beings - our understanding of "god/God" changes right along with us.    You just seemed to get there faster (in chronologic years) than many of us - good for you. 

 

In that growth process, we might for example be comforted by the all benevolent and forgiving father. 

Later we are less dependent on the concept of God/god.

Eventually we grow up (if we work at it) and we realize that WE are responsible for happy in our lives.

TOO....at that point - we also see the other side of things and take responsibility fully for our actions.  Each choice has a consequence and causes, in some way - whatever happens next. 

 

Is that about right or how you see it too?    

 

von

 

As Humanity matures -- We project different things onto God.  Slavery is no longer acceptable.  Neither is genocide.  So we no longer imagine that these are God's values.  Alas, we are stuck with the written word.  The printed page is frozen in time.  

 

Since people are so shockingly ignorant of Scripture, God culture continues to mature.  

 

[VonNoble]

 

Anyone out there skip taking your share  of whatever (to make sure others all all satisfied and full) before you fill your plate or eat your fill?     Anyone make sure that the chipped plate or cup is always at your place setting?  You hesitate to take the best or biggest for yourself?     Anyone fuming in silence to avoid a conflict?  (only to realize YOU are suffering in silence with resentment building?) 

 

REVERSING THE QUESTIONS....

 

Anyone speaking up and grabbing your fair share without waiting to see what others do?

Anyone taking the cracked plate and chipped cup and just tossing it in the garbage removing it as an option for all?

 

Anyone defusing conflict with humor and gentle honesty?   

Anyone refusing to  suffer any longer (or any more fools)  because you politely clarified your position rather than suffering in silence yet again?  Would you speak up a second time based on the first time? 

 

Sometimes being selfish is a  confused concept.  Maybe often.

Then again - sometimes I am confused way too often.  

 

Getting selfish has some immediate rewards, yes?

Maybe even long term rewards...(any to share?)

von

[mererdog]

8 hours ago, VonNoble said:

Sometimes being selfish is a  confused concept. 

I think it usually is. Ask ten random people whether a given act is selfish, and you will likely get seventeen different answers.

In my understanding, selfishness is putting the self above the other, while selflessness is putting the other above the self. As a firm believer in equality, I consider both to be vices rather than virtues.

My needs are important. Your needs are equally important. I believe my needs are primarily my own responsibility, however, so for me to neglect my needs is to act irresponsibiy. I also believe that your needs are primarily your responsibility,  thus for me to take care of your needs for you will usually mean destroying your sovereignty and relegating you to the status of a child or pet. Of course, at the margins, there are always obvious exceptions. There are always emergencies, disabilities, and other extenuating circumstances, after all. But as a simple rule of thumb, I fall back on the concept of reciprocity- I try to give only what I can actually afford and take only what I actually need.

Edited October 16, 2017 by mererdog

[VonNoble]

6 hours ago, mererdog said:

I think it usually is. Ask ten random people whether a given act is selfish, and you will likely get seventeen different answers.

In my understanding, selfishness is putting the self above the other, while selflessness is putting the other above the self. As a firm believer in equality, I consider both to be vices rather than virtues.

My needs are important. Your needs are equally important. I believe my needs are primarily my own responsibility, however, so for me to neglect my needs is to act irresponsibiy. I also believe that your needs are primarily your responsibility,  thus for me to take care of your needs for you will usually mean destroying your sovereignty and relegating you to the status of a child or pet. Of course, at the margins, there are always obvious exceptions. There are always emergencies, disabilities, and other extenuating circumstances, after all. But as a simple rule of thumb, I fall back on the concept of reciprocity- I try to give only what I can actually afford and take only what I actually need.

Agreed.   It seems I will be fortunate if I manage to half the distance I have yet to go....in this lifetime.  I suspect I am headed for the recycle bin 

von

 

 

[mark 45]

i admit that if the plate is cracked,i toss it.no sense someone using it and having it break on you.just seems logical.

[mererdog]

3 hours ago, mark 45 said:

i admit that if the plate is cracked,i toss it.no sense someone using it and having it break on you.just seems logical.

The kids' table at my grandmother's had the same cracked plates and chipped cups for abour a couple decades. I can't recall any of them ever breaking during use. I did have a cracked Pyrex piece that sort of exploded in the oven, though, so I can understand the caution.

[Key]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:32 AM, VonNoble said:

Agreed.   It seems I will be fortunate if I manage to half the distance I have yet to go....in this lifetime.  I suspect I am headed for the recycle bin 

von

 

 

You're lucky. A lot of folks aren't even sure there is a recycle bin.