Beheaded For Witchcraft And Sorcery

[ThunderChickenCoast2Coast]

Once again, evil only exists in a religious context. Without religion one is only behaving badly and in conflict with the laws of the society in which one lives.

.

You are essentially saying evil does not exist because "I, Brother Kaman, say evil does not exist". Therefore you cannot be judged for your evil acts because by your definition evil does not exist. Newsflash! We must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Not because I, a sinful man who could be lying to you, say so, but because God, who is not a man that He should lie, says so.

So according to you child molestation is not evil. Gotcha'. I think you better rethink your foundation for judging all things. Because the one you are using ain't gettin' it. It's hypocritical in the highest order.

I can help you out with that... by pointing you to The One who has an unchanging Moral Standard. That would be Jesus Christ. But not because I say so... but because He says so.

Edited November 6, 2015 by ObedEdom

[cuchulain]

How do you know Jesus said so? The bible tells you so. How do you know the Bible is true? Once again, the bible tells you it is. So does the national enquirer, by the way.

[mererdog]

Not because I, a sinful man who could be lying to you, say so, but because God, who is not a man that He should lie, says so.

God has never said that to me. Only sinful men who could be lying to me have done so. Did God speak to you directly, or are you putting your faith in the words of men who claim God talked to them?

[Brother Kaman]

You are essentially saying evil does not exist because "I, Brother Kaman, say evil does not exist". Therefore you cannot be judged for your evil acts because by your definition evil does not exist. Newsflash! We must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Not because I, a sinful man who could be lying to you, say so, but because God, who is not a man that He should lie, says so.

So according to you child molestation is not evil. Gotcha'. I think you better rethink your foundation for judging all things. Because the one you are using ain't gettin' it. It's hypocritical in the highest order.

I can help you out with that... by pointing you to The One who has an unchanging Moral Standard. That would be Jesus Christ. But not because I say so... but because He says so.

You are essentially saying evil does not exist because "I, Brother Kaman, say evil does not exist". Therefore you cannot be judged for your evil acts because by your definition evil does not exist. Newsflash! We must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Not because I, a sinful man who could be lying to you, say so, but because God, who is not a man that He should lie, says so. I will be judged, ObedEdom, by the laws of the society I live in, not a "God" that cannot exist within the laws of the universe. You would be spouting the Koran if you had been raised a Muslim and spouting the Vedas if you had been raised a Hindu. Your God exists only because you have been told he does.

So according to you child molestation is not evil. Gotcha'. I think you better rethink your foundation for judging all things. Because the one you are using ain't gettin' it. It's hypocritical in the highest order.

I can help you out with that... by pointing you to The One who has an unchanging Moral Standard. That would be Jesus Christ. But not because I say so... but because He says so.

[Bro. Hex]

Perhaps, out of irony, we should start the Church of Common Sense, since, inevitably, people often get that wrong, too. We'll call the congregation, "Commoners." Haha

I think we have already seen this, at least twice that I can readily think of (in addition to the ULC, of course!) : the Unitarian Universalist and Quaker paths.

[Bro. Hex]

Once again, evil only exists in a religious context. Without religion one is only behaving badly and in conflict with the laws of the society in which one lives.

I see this a bit differently. I "believe" that evil exists, but not as "an article of faith". I don't think that I have any articles of faith, in religious terms, that is. I have, of course, many secular articles of faith, such as "the sun will rise tomorrow" for example. I see "belief" in good and evil as more a matter of philosophy.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Bro. Hex

[ThunderChickenCoast2Coast]

How do you know Jesus said so? The bible tells you so. How do you know the Bible is true? Once again, the bible tells you it is. So does the national enquirer, by the way.

God is the Author of the Bible... because God says so. You can choose to believe Him.... or not. Yours or anyone's unbelief does not change God.

Edited November 15, 2015 by ObedEdom

[cuchulain]

Your belief doesn't make God any more real, either. But, since it seems to be getting nowhere, I choose to no longer debate this topic with you. Peace.

[ThunderChickenCoast2Coast]

Your belief doesn't make God any more real, either. But, since it seems to be getting nowhere, I choose to no longer debate this topic with you. Peace.

There is no "debating" on God's existence. The Bible says in Romans chapter 1 that EVERYBODY knows He exists because of His creation. It matters not that man has corrupted His creation because of Adam's disobedience. None of these things change that God is... and that He created everything. All this because He says so. That means You can yell at me or prove me wrong in certain areas but just because you beat me at a debate or I am proven ignorant or an idiot... does not mean God does not exist and that He loves you.

Edited November 16, 2015 by ObedEdom

[Pete]

There is no "debating" on God's existence. The Bible says in Romans chapter 1 that EVERYBODY knows He exists because of His creation. It matters not that man has corrupted His creation because of Adam's disobedience. None of these things change that God is... and that He created everything. All this because He says so. That means You can yell at me or prove me wrong in certain areas but just because you beat me at a debate or I am proven ignorant or an idiot... does not mean God does not exist and that He loves you.

Everybody knows god exists? That is rubbish (imo). Do you really believe people would be atheists or agnostics if there was any evidence that god exists.

[cuchulain]

He's just trolling, Pete. Just trolling...

[Key]

There is no "debating" on God's existence. The Bible says in Romans chapter 1 that EVERYBODY knows He exists because of His creation. It matters not that man has corrupted His creation because of Adam's disobedience. None of these things change that God is... and that He created everything. All this because He says so. That means You can yell at me or prove me wrong in certain areas but just because you beat me at a debate or I am proven ignorant or an idiot... does not mean God does not exist and that He loves you.

You seem to discount that the Bible was written by men. It may have been "God" inspired, or it may have been to further an agenda, (for sake of devil's advocate in the latter). We may never know for certain, as we aren't the authors.

You say that God authored the Bible, then quote it as proof? One can hardly use suspect evidence as proof for conviction beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Without evidence, it's called faith. With, fact. Faith can not be both, unfortunately.

I say I believe, but can't prove what I believe to be true. Still, it is true, if only to me.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1. There is no "debating" on God's existence. The Bible says in Romans chapter 2. that EVERYBODY knows He exists because of His creation. It matters not that man has corrupted His creation because of Adam's disobedience. None of these things change that God is... and that He created everything. 3. All this because He says so. That means You can yell at me or prove me wrong in certain areas but just because you beat me at a debate or I am proven ignorant or an idiot...4. does not mean God does not exist and that He loves you.

1. Sure there is.

2. No.

3. Sometimes, words fail.

4. It does not mean anything at all.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[ThunderChickenCoast2Coast]

You seem to discount that the Bible was written by men. It may have been "God" inspired, or it may have been to further an agenda, (for sake of devil's advocate in the latter). We may never know for certain, as we aren't the authors.

You say that God authored the Bible, then quote it as proof? One can hardly use suspect evidence as proof for conviction beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Without evidence, it's called faith. With, fact. Faith can not be both, unfortunately.

I say I believe, but can't prove what I believe to be true. Still, it is true, if only to me.

Since there is no one Higher than God who would He appeal to? He can only appeal to or swear by Himself.

[Pete]

ObedEdom said "Since there is no one Higher (how do you really know) than God (is there a god - then prove it) who would He appeal to? "(how can he appeal if you cannot prove he exists in the first place) He can only appeal to or swear by Himself." (It seems we have a god who cannot prove himself, takes no intervention in terrible events, who made a real hash of protecting and writing his word)

Does that god actually exist - there is no evidence that a god does. Sure you argue about a collection of writings and say god is the author but if that is so then god is really inept. Your not convincing anyone with what you have presented. You say it is a belief you have - well fine but you have nothing that proves anything. Some god and some way of trying to get people to follow such a god. If there is a god then he is terribly incompetent and inept about everything and needs human help to present himself. Poor thing. .

[Key]

Since there is no one Higher than God who would He appeal to? He can only appeal to or swear by Himself.

Puzzling. Where does the question of appeal even come from?

My point, you can not prove, nor disprove that the Bible was written by men with an agenda to put into motion. Nor can you prove, outside of faith, that the Bible was "authored" by God. Only those who did the original writing or dictation would know for certain. Therefore, submitting a quote from a questionable source does not provide concrete proof.

You can quote from the National Enquirer, as someone else had mentioned, but that doesn't mean what was written was true, even though there are many who subscribe and believe it is so.

[ThunderChickenCoast2Coast]

Puzzling. Where does the question of appeal even come from?

My point, you can not prove, nor disprove that the Bible was written by men with an agenda to put into motion. Nor can you prove, outside of faith, that the Bible was "authored" by God. Only those who did the original writing or dictation would know for certain. Therefore, submitting a quote from a questionable source does not provide concrete proof.

You can quote from the National Enquirer, as someone else had mentioned, but that doesn't mean what was written was true, even though there are many who subscribe and believe it is so.

And how is truth established? What is an unchanging foundation for truth? It can't be man because man lies.

[Pete]

And how is truth established? What is an unchanging foundation for truth? It can't be man because man lies.

and as man wrote the bible? God never sat down at a desk and used a pen. Men did. So you say men lie. Interesting.

[Key]

And how is truth established? What is an unchanging foundation for truth? It can't be man because man lies.

So, therein lies your contradiction in faith. The Bible states that God doesn't lie, but men do, even by your own admission. Think on this...men wrote the Bible, God didn't. He only "inspired" it.

Now, the question of truth? Who defines it? Men do, according to their own rationale. The human mind is capable of finding truth in anything and everything, while also finding falsehoods with everyone else who feels their truth is opposite.

You may say the Bible is truth according to God, but so can a Muslim with the Koran, or the Hebrew with the Torah, or etc. etc.

Also, as men often are of minds that change, so too, may the truth to them. There is no unchanging foundation.

[cuchulain]

If man cannot determine the truth, then how can man determine whether the bible is true?