Welfare

[lordie]

I just got done look at the news wheel on a social network site were they had about foodstamps and a iphone

I thought well so what someone on foodstamps has an iphone no big deal they aint that expensive . And so i read the comments unbelievable the hatred towards people on welfare and foodstamps . It turned my stomache . As religious people we shouldnt make fun of any one esp one that is different than us .

So i posted a comment

You dont know someone until you walk a mile in their shoes !!

I thought well it might stop the picking i guess i wasnt the only one who thought that some other people did too . My personal belief is dont judge because someday it might be you

Lordie

[grateful]

I know what you mean lordie. it's kind of horrendous the vitriol that comes up around people receiving benefits like welfare or food stamps.

and you are right, you don't know someone until you have walked in their shoes. I think most of those people commenting so negatively would be hard pressed to say that they would not want to provide for the elderly, the sick, little ones, the incapacitated but they tend to lump everyone who receives benefits into one group - lazy and undeserving, looking for a handout. it's easy to generalize, isn't it?

let's face it though, there are plenty of people who are capable of working who do not and who collect benefits instead. I know some otherwise lovely people through my work that are third generation welfare recipients. housing, medical care, food, for three generations while I (and my family) have had to pay dearly for these things over the years. that doesn't sound fair, does it? it actually kind of pisses me off and leads me to question where my tax dollars go and why programs in place do not work.

I want people who need help to be helped but I think it's time to break the cycle and mindset of poverty. the institutionalization of poverty is a money maker for everyone but the people who need a way out.

people who struggle and work hard simply resent those who do not, and they don't particularly feel that they should foot the bill for someone else's life and choices.

the problem is that those who cannot get their financial lives together for whatever reason are lumped in together with those people who won't get their financial lives in order, for whatever reason.

my husband and I work really hard.

[Dan56]

There are people who genuinely need help, but there are others who exploit the system. My nephew gets $200 of food stamps a month, phone, etc. He's a bum, a healthy 35 yr old man who has a sense of entitlement. I've offered him a good job 3 times and he rejected me 3 times. He won't work because he doesn't have to work and isn't required to accept work. Its people like him that give the truly needy a bad rap. When I tell him that he needs to get a job, his response is; "Why?" I must confess, he has a valid point, he gets along very well without working.

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

[panpareil]

It is a fine thing to feed a person until they can feed themselves, or to care for those who will never be able to feed themselves.

But the intentional domestication of human beings that have the potential to be free and self-sustaining is as disgusting as the institution of slavery.

There is a reason why feeding wild animals is banned everywhere. It makes them dependent and lowers their chance of overall survival, and it makes it more likely they will attack humans when they want more.

If we are to be extending carrots they should be just far enough out of reach to require a days work to get it.

This is not cruel. It is no meaner than requiring a child to eat their vegetables, or do their homework.

There is a desired outcome of an independent adult citizen, not a dependent ward of the state.

Our species is doomed if we allow the bulk of the population to degrade to the point that they can no longer maintain their own survival.

[grateful]

lordie, I was thinking about what you said initially, that iphones aren't expensive.. not looking for an argument (at all) and I don't mean to put you on the spot

but iphones are expensive. not just the phones but the plans you need to carry. we paid a few hundred dollars each (for three phones) and pay over $150.00 a month for unlimited service. the initial bill/payment was near a thousand dollars, maybe eight hundred. we used upgrades..

so from that perspective, maybe they feel that if someone can afford an iphone, they can afford to assume that much financial responsibility for themselves.

[Atwater Vitki]

There are people who genuinely need help, but there are others who exploit the system. My nephew gets $200 of food stamps a month, phone, etc. He's a bum, a healthy 35 yr old man who has a sense of entitlement. I've offered him a good job 3 times and he rejected me 3 times. He won't work because he doesn't have to work and isn't required to accept work. Its people like him that give the truly needy a bad rap. When I tell him that he needs to get a job, his response is; "Why?" I must confess, he has a valid point, he gets along very well without working.

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

It is a fine thing to feed a person until they can feed themselves, or to care for those who will never be able to feed themselves.

But the intentional domestication of human beings that have the potential to be free and self-sustaining is as disgusting as the institution of slavery.

There is a reason why feeding wild animals is banned everywhere. It makes them dependent and lowers their chance of overall survival, and it makes it more likely they will attack humans when they want more.

If we are to be extending carrots they should be just far enough out of reach to require a days work to get it.

This is not cruel. It is no meaner than requiring a child to eat their vegetables, or do their homework.

There is a desired outcome of an independent adult citizen, not a dependent ward of the state.

Our species is doomed if we allow the bulk of the population to degrade to the point that they can no longer maintain their own survival.

Absolutely...a temporary helping hand is something many people need for time to time, but when that turns into multiple generations (I knew numerous up in Humboldt as well) like Grateful said, we have a horrific social problem.

Back in the days of Food Stamps, not EBT cards, the usual "barter" was 2:1 ($100 fs for $50 cash/value) on the streets. I would get cussed out by those on welfare because I refused to take FS in "trade" for tattooing at my studios. Twice I fired workers for doing it behind my back. Several times I was made out to be the heel because "that's the way it is dude"...while the children had their "dinner" of a popcicle or microwave corn dog....I was outraged more times than not about that sort of behavior.

One article in the Times-Standard (1994/5?) was about Social Services being called on a couple...not only was he working a cash job most of the year, ($15/hr back then) but she collected welfare from Oregon and California under two different names to the tune of nearly $4k/mo. The parents had high end designer clothes, Foster Grant sunglasses, Gucci purse (both mentioned in article) for her, new 4x4 pickup etc off working people's contributions while the kids walked around in the same under sized rags all week, nice eh?

There is a stigmata attached to those who are public assistance...but honestly who's fault is it?

I've also known people who you'd never, ever suspect of being on welfare, because they followed the rules, actively sought work, until finding a decent job and used their FS for...OMG!....food...who'da thot?! Paid their rent and bills on time etc etc....normal everyday stuff working people have battled since building the Tower of Babble. As soon as they were stable..OFF the system....as it's suppose to be.

Sure the dead beats get far more press and contribute the most to the general public attitude about it, but again...who's fault is that?

Blessings of Peace,

[remove]

Absolutely...a temporary helping hand is something many people need for time to time, but when that turns into multiple generations (I knew numerous up in Humboldt as well) like Grateful said, we have a horrific social problem.

Back in the days of Food Stamps, not EBT cards, the usual "barter" was 2:1 ($100 fs for $50 cash/value) on the streets. I would get cussed out by those on welfare because I refused to take FS in "trade" for tattooing at my studios. Twice I fired workers for doing it behind my back. Several times I was made out to be the heel because "that's the way it is dude"...while the children had their "dinner" of a popcicle or microwave corn dog....I was outraged more times than not about that sort of behavior.

One article in the Times-Standard (1994/5?) was about Social Services being called on a couple...not only was he working a cash job most of the year, ($15/hr back then) but she collected welfare from Oregon and California under two different names to the tune of nearly $4k/mo. The parents had high end designer clothes, Foster Grant sunglasses, Gucci purse (both mentioned in article) for her, new 4x4 pickup etc off working people's contributions while the kids walked around in the same under sized rags all week, nice eh?

There is a stigmata attached to those who are public assistance...but honestly who's fault is it?

I've also known people who you'd never, ever suspect of being on welfare, because they followed the rules, actively sought work, until finding a decent job and used their FS for...OMG!....food...who'da thot?! Paid their rent and bills on time etc etc....normal everyday stuff working people have battled since building the Tower of Babble. As soon as they were stable..OFF the system....as it's suppose to be.

Sure the dead beats get far more press and contribute the most to the general public attitude about it, but again...who's fault is that?

Blessings of Peace,

You are so right to fire the employees for food stamp fraud. There are people who abuse the system and are creative in doing it. There are also those who have fallen on bad times and are grateful for the help.

There are those who are not of retirement age who befell an illness and are lucky to get State help for the two years it takes to transfer to medicare.

Welfare is a good thing if used right.

[Brother Kaman]

It is sad that so many Americans will first denounce people who are rich and then turn around and denounce those who are poor.

[grateful]

It is sad that so many Americans will first denounce people who are rich and then turn around and denounce those who are poor.

I don't think anyone is "denouncing the poor". blanket statements never work, for the rich or the poor. it looks like people are denouncing those who take advantage of a broken system that provides for the needy when they are not in fact all that needy.

[Decline]

Most people who see me use my EBT card in the grocery store probably think I'm scamming. I look young and healthy, like I could totally handle a job. What they don't know is that my condition can go from fine to a complete nightmare almost instantly. Today might be a good day for me, where I only have 2-3 attacks, and that's why I chose to go to the store.

I would love to still be working. I miss it and if I could get my neuro disorders under control I would gladly take just about any job I was capable of performing. I have a neighbor who is trying to teach me how to design websites. Slow going because I'm definitely not very computer savvy. Hopefully, after I learn enough, I will be able to get back to supporting myself.

Until then, sorry if the fact that I don't appear to be needy enough causes anyone distress.

[Raincloud]

There are people who genuinely need help, but there are others who exploit the system. My nephew gets $200 of food stamps a month, phone, etc. He's a bum, a healthy 35 yr old man who has a sense of entitlement. I've offered him a good job 3 times and he rejected me 3 times. He won't work because he doesn't have to work and isn't required to accept work. Its people like him that give the truly needy a bad rap. When I tell him that he needs to get a job, his response is; "Why?" I must confess, he has a valid point, he gets along very well without working.

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

For every person that exploits the welfare system, there are a thousand more that exploit the taxation system, that exploit their workers, that exploit financial markets etc etc. Those people give honest Business people a bad name.

Having worked with businesses and finance industry for the last 20 years, i will tell you there is far more crime, and exploiting that occurs by 'business people' and their employees behind the scenes than any welfare exploiter. So much occurs that is not disclosed. Often it's not the Owner's fault, but when their trusted employee of 20 years steals $100,000 from the Client trust Fund, it often gets settled quietly without police in order to protect the name of the business.

I wish I could point the finger and say "Look it's a welfare exploiter problem'. But really? Who crashes economies?

We've got a problem building in Australia. We are headed for a market crash and property crash. A lot of people have been hiding things. A lot of Banks have been doing illegal things. Look at all these Financial Planners that ruined people's lives.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/banned-cba-planners-took-charge-of-millions-of-dollars-20130607-2nvh6.html

What's a couple of food stamps, compared to what those guys do!!!

[lordie]

Ok i read all you guys replies

Ok. Grateful an iphone is 200 for the phone 45 a month . ( straight talk , family talk , net 10 )

For decline my bro has a neuro disorder bad so i told him to apply .and for raincloud i agree we do not see or hear about big business fraud and we pick on welfare that is sad

Brother kaman i agree i was raised poor i got picked on alot but the rich kids didnt care they pick pick

.to the rest of you yes i have seen people take advantage of the system . But for those who dont we shouldnt punish .

Lordie

Ok i read all you guys replies

Ok. Grateful an iphone is 200 for the phone 45 a month . ( straight talk , family talk , net 10 )

For decline my bro has a neuro disorder bad so i told him to apply .and for raincloud i agree we do not see or hear about big business fraud and we pick on welfare that is sad

Brother kaman i agree i was raised poor i got picked on alot but the rich kids didnt care they pick pick

.to the rest of you yes i have seen people take advantage of the system . But for those who dont we shouldnt punish .

Lordie

[cuchulain]

a lot of things can happen to people for bad decisions in life, but also for seemingly good decisions at the time. My wife has an associates in art and a bachelors in mass communications. She chose that route because she trusted the advisor of the university when he said it was an up and coming field. In our area of the country, she has not been able to find work with this degree. A good choice at the time, seemingly, to listen to a university advisor, but the results were not what he implied. Now she works minimum wage, and we receive food stamps and live in public housing because I am unable to work and she can't find better.

On the other hand, it is extremely irksome to be at the food stamp office and see someone pull up in a brand new BMW, wearing platinum jewelry, with gold teeth, Nike shoes, and a Rolex and here them complain that their cash assistance got cut from over 900 a month to 800 a month.

[grateful]

absolutely acknowledge corporate welfare and its far reaching effects and expense. duly noted, it's far more distressing.

I want nothing but good things for people receiving much needed assistance - decline, I understand what you are saying. I was driving my (dying) mother and parked with a placard in a handicapped spot. we looked quite able bodied (she was having a great day) but she was dying of a brain tumor, there was no dropping her off and parking the car, you know? we got some nasty looks and comments. haters gonna hate.

chuculain, I know many fine people in your situation, it's really tough right now..

[lordie]

Yes cuchulain your are right some people i know went to school and still end up at mcdonalds working and pay school debt

That is not right and grateful i am sorry about your mom . Sometimes people judge w out looking or w out an open mind

Lordie

[pmo]

Just remember. Those who work and pay taxes are PAYING for those handouts...

REVPO

[Atwater Vitki]

I agree pmo, however, anyone who has worked their whole life and falls on bad times, like our entire country right now, go for it, they've earned those benefits. The one's most folks get twisted about are the "entitled generations"...those who've never worked or barely worked and then stick their hand out and then crab about what they get. Frankly, I don't see where it would violate anyone's civil rights that if you have never worked or for not so many years, you don't get welfare (extenuating circumstances for some single Mom's excluded)

As has been discussed, there are families on the dole that have been groomed by past generations how to get the most out of the system...those few are the unfortunate examples most working folks think of as being all people on welfare...not the case.

Blessings of Peace,

When I worked my studios up in Humboldt; one graphic example of the "entitled" vs the "earned" were twins gals, late 20's when they came in for their "Twin Sisters", matching tattoos. Both raised by a single mom on welfare, with 2 other siblings. One worked her way through college, the other pregnant before graduating high school, one working as a production assistant for the local rock radio station, the other on welfare since the first of 3 kids from 3 diff dads and a diff hubby then. Naturally the college grad, working sis paid for tattoos...while it didn't make much difference to the one, the other worked long hours for the $500 bucks she expected to be doling out. What amazed me was the one paying, carefully set price against "wants" and determined a nice custom design while the one not paying wanted more and more and more added to the design, increasing the price by $50-75 each change...she simply did not care...she wanted. I did the "twins speech" making sure the designs were identical to the specs the one paying determined.

It just blew me away how two "identical" gals, raised in the same environment had such radically different ideas about money and spending. Just goes to prove the theory that people that do not earn their rewards do not value their rewards. Since the welfare sis had "agreed" to pay back sis, the receipt read Tat #1 $250.00 Tat #2 (the one paying) $250.00 - $100= $150.00 commercial discount Total = $400. Even if the welfare sis never made it right, it was the least I could do for such a generous sister...that worked hard, long hours for her paycheck.

[lordie]

Wow nicely put atwater

Lordie

[mererdog]

By funding welfare programs with money that is extracted from individuals through threat of violence, we ensure that (in aggregate terms) those paying in will be resentful and those taking out will not really appreciate what they get. Sad but true.

[mererdog]

There is a reason why feeding wild animals is banned everywhere.

[?] It isn't even banned most places.

Our species is doomed if we allow the bulk of the population to degrade to the point that they can no longer maintain their own survival.

"allow"? That's a pretty creepy sentence you've put together there. Very 1930s eugenics sounding. More importantly, your premise is flawed. The species would not be doomed so long as a portion of the species possessed the necessary traits to survive. Anything else would, at most, simply cause a decrease in population size. And, just to be clear, none of us know what traits will be needed to survive the future, thus the survival of the species depends on the sort of genetic diversity you get when you allow people to develop traits you don't like.