Pastor Dave

ED-209?????

We thank you all for your prayers, thoughts, meditations, love and light, and blessings.

My daughters boyfriend, father of two of my grandchildren, died in a one car accident last night around 3:00 am. Details are sketchy right now.

I've seen that one before, but it's been a while. Still tugs at the heart. Thanks for sharing.

My son was just over and happened to mention that he likes "happy music". I just told him that I had a music video folder just for that kind of music. He thought that was a good thing to have handy sometimes. I was just wondering how many of you actually have a folder of music set aside just to bring your spirits up and what you have in there (or would put in one). So far mine has these songs. Argent - Hold your Head Up Bill Withers - Lean on Me Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry be Happy Dobie Gray - Drift Away Dr. and the Medics - Spirit In the Sky Earth Wind & Fire - Shining Star James Brown - I Feel Good Johnny Nash I Can See Clearly Now Three Dog Night - Joy To the World Rare Earth - I just Want to Celebrate

I would probably have to say I lean more towards a free republic.

Sorry Hyper, on re reading that statement I see that you were still quoting the article you were citing. Let me rephrase that to read; I find no scriptural backing for the statement "Jesus taught His disciples to “give, hoping for nothing in return,” . Without scriptural backing I would say his assumption is "not Biblical" more so than one that is supported throughout the Bible. Fawzo, thanks for getting us back on topic. No I don't think we should add more taxes to religious institutions. I believe the ones we have in place are sufficient.

IMHO We understand. You are anti wealth. We get it. You don't care who has the money. If they have more than you believe they should have you feel they are wrong. Now these uppity Christians think they should be blessed. Well if their God blesses them then let's show them. Let's take as much as we can, and tell them what they are to believe. They are to believe that God wants them to be the poor! Sorry to have to be the one to tell you but, you don't get to tell Christians what the Gospel is or how we should believe. Your quote from Charles Spurgeon does not go against the Faith message in the least. It simply reinforces the point of not trusting in wealth or trusting in Jesus. We are taught to be a blessing to those less fortunate than ourselves. Yet it seems to me you would have Christians be the less fortunate. How then, can we be a blessing to the world unless we ourselves have been blessed. NIV John 123 Then Mary took a twelve-ounce jarof expensive perfume made from essence of nard, and she anointed Jesus’ feet with it, wiping his feet with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance. 4 But Judas Iscariot, the disciple who would soon betray him, said, 5 “That perfume was worth a year’s wages. It should have been sold and the money given to the poor.” 6 Not that he cared for the poor—he was a thief, and since he was in charge of the disciples’ money, he often stole some for himself. 7 Jesus replied, “Leave her alone. AMP Mathew 24:45Who then is the faithful, thoughtful, and wise servant, whom his master has put in charge of his household to give to the others the food and supplies at the proper time? 46Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) is that servant whom, when his master comes, he will find so doing. Please direct me the scripture to which you refer to where "Jesus taught His disciples to “give, hoping for nothing in return,” as I am unfamiliar with such a verse. Without scriptural reference I have no idea where you get that. Since it seems to me you you are against the message of Christians be blessed, here, now, in this life, let me reference a few scriptures for you. Mathew 6:3But when you give to charity, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4So that your deeds of charity may be in secret; and your Father Who sees in secret will reward you openly. Luke 6: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. Mathew 6:33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. AMP Mathew 7:7 Keep on asking and it will be given you; keep on seeking and you will find; keep on knocking [reverently] and [the door] will be opened to you. AMP Mathew 7:11 If you then, evil as you are, know how to give good and advantageous gifts to your children, how much more will your Father Who is in heaven [perfect as He is] give good and advantageous things to those who keep on asking Him! AMP Mathew 10:42 And whoever gives to one of these little ones [in rank or influence] even a cup of cold water because he is My disciple, surely I declare to you, he shall not lose his reward. The Bible is full of scriptures telling us that God wants to bless us. Proverbs 10:22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it. Proverbs 3:9 Honor the Lord with your wealth. Give him the first share of all your crops. 10 Then your storerooms will be so full they can't hold everything. Your huge jars will spill over with fresh wine.

A simple search produced this. Churches are often referred to as tax-exempt organizations; however, it is a misnomer to say a church does not pay taxes. Churches typically are required to pay many types of taxes, including but not limited to a variety of payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes on non-worship facilities, and even Unrelated Business Income Taxes (UBIT) paid on activities that are similar to those carried on by commercial, taxable entities. The only taxes that churches are generally exempt from paying are federal and state income taxes on their profits, some employer-paid payroll taxes such as Unemployment and the Employment Training Tax (ETT), and property taxes on worship facilities. http://www.protectthechurch.com/cpaarticle1.html From this article it seems that the things that most seem to agree should be taxed Already Are Taxed. Most ministers, particularly those you insinuate, most likely own their own home. Although the IRS does make some allowances for the church to provide a "parsonage" excessive amounts must be claimed. If you own your home, you may still claim deductions for mortgage interest and real property taxes. If your housing allowance exceeds the lesser of your reasonable salary, the fair rental value of the home, or your actual expenses, you must include the amount of the excess as other income. A minister who receives a housing allowance may exclude the allowance from gross income to the extent it is used to pay expenses in providing a home. Generally, those expenses include rent, mortgage interest, utilities, repairs, and other expenses directly relating to providing a home. The amount excluded cannot be more than the reasonable pay for the minister's services. http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc417.html Having several practicing Ministers in my family I would have to say parsonages offered by a church generally reflect an average income of the congregation. Most of those also have other jobs. They save. They invest. They run businesses. They pay taxes. They do the same things with their money that anyone else would do with their money. If they are Blessed in everything they put their hand to, it seems to me, you would then put additional tax burdens on their shoulders. Having the government then "redistribute" that money however it sees fit. What makes you think even $1.00 in additional taxes the government collected would ever make it to the poor. Yet the Ministers you speak of, organize and donate to charities for the poor. Millions of dollars go to poor around the world because of these very men. You would begrudge them a jet to get to various speaking engagements or meetings with people who can help to make these things happen. It seems to me you feel they should stay at the Motel 6 instead of La Quinta. Eat at Long John Silvers instead of Red Lobster. These men are Blessed by God. If they live a good life I feel it is because they deserve it. The good they do around the world could never be achieved by the government with the same impact per dollar. While you would have the government take care of the poor, I would rather see the Church. What do you call "wallowing in wealth" ? Because they have nice furniture? Big screen TV's so the people in the back can see? Padded seats for the congregation? Stained glass windows? The tithing members (not all members tithe) of a church put 10% of their income into the church every year. That money helps pay for those things. The members should be able to see the benefit of this. Not only the Minister is blessed by God. So is the congregation to be blessed. If then, a group of members feel they deserve a level of comfort that they have achieved through success in life at their church then they deserve it. Ahhh, but that was not the moral of the story. What did the rich young man ask, that he received that instruction? He asked "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And after Jesus told him to sell everything he told him to follow him. The man left depressed because he had more Faith in his wealth than in Jesus. Jesus knew this. Now if you read a little further in the story you'll find the promise given to those who put their Faith in Jesus rather than in their wealth. AMP Mark 10:29Jesus said, Truly I tell you, there is no one who has given up and left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for My sake and for the Gospel's 30Who will not receive a hundred times as much now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life. So I see your persecutions of television ministers and their being "richley blessed and highly favored of the Lord" as nothing more than the fufilment of this scripture.

You're welcome Hex, I was checking out the courses offered by hq a couple days ago. I haven't taken the course so I can't speak to the curriculum but I would imagine after completing it one should have a grasp on whatever areas were covered in the material. as a side note: I remember when I read Dianetics (Scientology) ... it was basically a book about how to conduct regression therapy. Psychology disguised as part of a religion thereby allowing them to practice psychology without a license. They call it "clear" and once you become "clear" you can then "clear" others ... although not all who are clear choose to clear others. Worked pretty good ... I got my 16 yr old nephew (at the time) to go back to an event that happened when he was 2. Then I confirmed that the event took place through other sources. He had details that I don't think most people would remember about an event that happened a week ago.

You may also want to check out this course offered by ULCHQ The Science of Understanding Life, SOUL clinic course, is a course in ministerial counseling. This course does not entitle you to be a State Certified Psychologist; it does qualify you as a religious counselor. http://ulchqcom.ipower.com/osCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=50&osCsid=189c3c031559e460d2688a0c3ae9a08f

Silent night I will agree that little drummer boy is also very awesome.

Yes, I am happy. Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. John 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. You also mentioned contentment. Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.

Well, if this is the place for funny animation, here's one for you Say Cheese

Yes I believe in God. Nicely put Blackthorn.

Wow I didn't know so many of our members shared my birthday. Happy birthday to all the rest of you.

Cats with guns ........... why else ?????

I thought it was Ok, but I've seen much better war movies.

Too bad the pics aren't a little bigger. I think a few of them would make great wallpapers.

I was devastated when Farscape ended.

That first song, "Energy", is pretty good Salem.

Well I don't read much anymore, however as a teen I was quite the sci-fi reader. And one of the sets that I really enjoyed was the John Carter of Mars series by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Classics. The series consists of 11 novels dated from 1917 to 1948. They are; # 1917 - A Princess of Mars aka Under The Moons Of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.1) # 1918 - The Gods of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.2) # 1919 - The Warlord of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.3) # 1920 - Thuvia, Maid of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.4) # 1922 - The Chessmen of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.5) # 1928 - The Master Mind of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.6) # 1931 - A Fighting Man of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.7) # 1936 - Swords of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.8) # 1940 - Synthetic Men of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.9) # 1943 - John Carter of Mars [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.11) # 1948 - Llana of Gathol [sF], (John Carter of Mars Series No.10) Don't ask me why #11 was released 5 years before #10. I read them in the 70's. John Carter was an Earthman who travelled to Mars via the Astral Plane. Somewhat of a Conan the Barbarian type character he does battle and has his little flings all over the planet encountering some very interesting creatures. You can download parts of the series from Project Gutenberg in HTML, plain text or you can read them online. The Chessmen of Mars Gods of Mars A Princess of Mars Thuvia Maid of Mars Warlord of Mars