Pastor Dave

And Noah's family only had his word it was time to build a boat. The Jews had only Moses word that he was told by God to lead them out of Egypt. We have only John of Patmos word for the entire book of Revelation. You have only my word that I was given a Divine Revelation when I was 12 for which I was called a heritic and told to never repeat that again. That revelation is now widely accepted by most Christian denominations. I can understand reluctance in believing in divine revelation if you have never experienced such a thing. It was actually years later when the Church started accepting what I had said (not because of me but because God had given the same revelation to others also) that I began to realize I had been given a revelation from God. Matthew 19 20-22 (CJB) 20 The young man said to him, “I have kept all these; where do I still fall short?” 21 Yeshua said to him, “If you are serious about reaching the goal, go and sell your possessions, give to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come, follow me!” 22 But when the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he was wealthy. It's clear that Jesus knew he wasn't as serious as he seemed. He told him exactly what he expected to hear. When he questioned farther Jesus told him the one thing he still lacked and he went away sad because he was unwilling to go the extra step. Attempting to discredit Paul is to be expected. At one time I too thought that, since Paul had never met the living Jesus his teachings were suspect. Particularly the ones I didn't like. As I matured in Christ I accepted that Paul had to have revelation or else we (the rest of the world) would not recieve the gospel. Yes Paul is the one responsible for bringing the teachings of Jesus to the Gentiles along with new teachings that were revealed to him for the gentiles. This in no way invalidates the message. To hear some speak it would seem that they are attempting to say Jesus would not have approved of non Jews receiving the gospel. How did Jesus respond to non Jews who heard of him? The first story that comes to mind is that of the Syrophoenician Woman in Mark 7:24-30 24 Jesus left that place and went to the vicinity of Tyre.[g] He entered a house and did not want anyone to know it; yet he could not keep his presence secret. 25 In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an impure spirit came and fell at his feet. 26 The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter. 27 “First let the children eat all they want,” he told her, “for it is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 28 “Lord,” she replied, “even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.” 29 Then he told her, “For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.” 30 She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone. This woman was a Greek Pagan. Jesus first response is to tell her she must wait until the children have had their fill. It seems clear to me that Jesus implied that after the Jews had their fill that the pagans would be filled too. As she persisted and answered with wit her request was granted. Because she believed and persisted she was granted her petition before the time for the gentiles. This was not Yeshua's only only contact with a not Jew in the gospels. Let's look at John 4 where Jesus talked with the Samaratin woman. John 4:4-9 4 And he must needs go through Samaria. 5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. 7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Here we see Jesus talking to a Samaratin woman as if it were not a big deal yet she is taken aback because the Jews wouldn't even use the same dishes as Samaritans. The story continues ... 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. Jesus makes it clear that he knows her past. Later in the story ... 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. 27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her? 28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? 30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him. Now, by her testimony, the men of her town come out to hear from Jesus. ..... 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. 40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days. 41 And many more believed because of his own word; 42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. 43 Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee. So it is quite apparent that because Jesus taught the Samaratins (not Jews) of Sychar many believed. So here we have evidence that Jesus himself taught non Jews and that many believed. Then we have the healing of the ten from leprosy ..... Luke 17:12-16 12 As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy[b](P) met him. They stood at a distance(Q) 13 and called out in a loud voice, “Jesus, Master,(R) have pity on us!” 14 When he saw them, he said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.”(S) And as they went, they were cleansed. 15 One of them, when he saw he was healed, came back, praising God(T) in a loud voice. 16 He threw himself at Jesus’ feet and thanked him—and he was a Samaritan.(U) Again Jesus preforms a miracle for a non Jew. It is evident Jesus was not opposed to non Jews being blessed of God. Again I say Thank God for Paul! Without Paul I would likely not know YHVH. It is without doubt I believe Yeshua did come to Saul on the road to Damascus. I believe Paul was sent to the gentiles and Peter was sent to the Jews.

Interesting that you brought up that scripture. Have you ever wondered why Saul/Paul would say that? let's look at the whole scripture you quoted: 11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. What did Jeshua say he would build his Church upon? The Roman Catholics would have you believe it was Simon/Peter, but was it? Yes Simon/Peter is said to be the first Pope, and that all Popes derive their authority by Apostolic succession. But what if Jeshua wasn't telling Simon/Peter that he would be the head of his Church. But rather, that Divine Revelation would but what his church would be built upon. Matthew 16:17-19 New International Version (NIV) 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it.19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” The word for Peter is petros and the word for rock is petra which is the feminine of petros which both mean rock. Jeshua was telling Simon that he had the rock that the Church would be built on. He had Divine Revelation (the rock) and on Divine Revelation(this rock) would the Church be built. There have been many who have changed the face of Christianity since it's early beginnings. These changes always come through Divine Revelation of God to anointed men of God. The Church matures through Divine Revelation. Names like John Wycliffe, John Calvin, Martin Luther, William Tyndale, Petr Chclcicky, even including 20th century ministers such as Martin Luther King, Billy Grahm and Oral Roberts come to mind. I would even go so far as to say there are ministers alive today that I feel will be responsible for changes that will further mature the church. Saul/Paul was given Divine Revelation of his mission in the Church. The teachings of Jeshua fell out of favor among the Jewish followers for whatever reason. That's not mine to determine. Their covenant with YHVH is still in effect. Paul was to bring the gospel to the gentiles. He has been very successful in his mission. Why my ancestors accepted Christianity over the gods they formerly worshiped is also, not mine to determine. For me, I accept Christianity because I see that through faith in YHVH he exhibits his Grace to me. It saddens me that those who don't accept YHVH as their God will see his wrath but It is the individual's choice to accept or reject him. Had Paul not been successful in his mission I likely would not have a relationship with my loving creator. Instead, I would likely be serving more gods that I care to remember who, played with men's lives as if they were merely pieces on a board game. Thank God for Paul!

Depends on where you live if you are talking about legally. http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/09/spain-raises-age-of-consent-for-sex-marriage/ I think it really depends on the individual, the circumstances and the consequences of making a bad choice. The age of accountability is also something to consider. Just because you may be accountable for decisions you make doesn't necesarily mean you should make those decisions.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstien

The Apostle Paul is one of the men most responsible for bringing the teachings of Yeshua to the Gentiles. Without Paul we, the Gentiles, would still be under the Noahide covenant. Just as the Abrahamic covenant is an everlasting covenant, so too is the Noahide covenant. Since most of us know very little, if anything, of the Noahide covenant, Paul, Simon Peter and James the Just, are responsible for bringing the knowledge of YHVH to the Gentiles. Paul being the one called to that mission. Paul brought us, the Gentiles, a new covenant, a covenant of grace, through faith. Although there are/have been misunderstandings of the teachings of Yeshua I do not believe they are because Paul "corrupted" the message. I would venture to say that corruptions of Yeshua's teachings are due to later leaders misunderstanding and/or agenda's than Paul's. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

KJV 10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. CJB 10 אWho can find a capable wife? Her value is far beyond that of pearls. ב 11 Her husband trusts her from his heart, and she will prove a great asset to him. ג 12 She works to bring him good, not harm, all the days of her life. Amplified Bible 10 A capable, intelligent, and [b]virtuous woman—who is he who can find her? She is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls. 11 The heart of her husband trusts in her confidently and relies on and believes in her securely, so that he has no lack of [honest] gain or need of [dishonest] spoil. 12 She comforts, encourages, and does him only good as long as there is life within her. Neither version sounds demeaning when read in context. IMO Thank you RabbiO for your commentary on the Adam & Eve story. Please continue. As Rabbi Daniel Lapin says "Everyone needs a Rabbi". I thank you for filling that role here at the ULC forums.

Speaking as a Christian, Wiccan and other witches hold a special place in my heart. But I will admit that it's not because of my Christian training. It may be due, at least in part, to my understanding of Yeshua's teachings since I began studying the Bible on my own rather than just going to Church and listening to what the pastor had to say. More likely though, it is because my mother was a witch. I'm not sure if it was Wiccan or another path, none the less, she called herself a witch. You see I grew up in a house where herbal remedies were common. Burning candles of a specific color for a specific result was common. Psychics were regular visitors. Crystals held power. Palm readings, common. Astral projection was possible, although dangerous if not done under controlled conditions. All this and much more. My paternal Grandmother, on the other hand was a Fundamentalist Pentacostal from the early years of the movement. Faith healing happened on a regular basis. Prayer filled needs supernaturally. Prophets came through the Church all the time. More than a few men of God had been taken to Heaven, and returned to tell about the experience. As has already been said, there are many similarities. Oh by the way, you say "I've come to know few Wiccans that have much love for the way Christians behave." Many Christians don't emulate Yeshua in their daily lives. Usually the ones that are misbehaving are the ones who get noticed while the ones who try to emulate Yeshua's treatment of others are simply overlooked.

point Fawzo However 1 John 4:1 CJB Dear friends, don’t trust every spirit. On the contrary, test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

I understand fully what you are saying, I simply disagree. If your god sees a man commit a murder and says, in his best Mel Brooks voice," Murder schmurder what murder ... it's nothing ... go ahead ... what's to forgive ... nothing ... don't worry about it" I say that's a god I don't want anything to do with. It is quite clear that your god is not the same god as my God. I think here is the crux of the whole thing. You base your understanding of your god on the automatic writings of a person, in the 1960's who, in my opinion, was channeling spirits. This practice has it's roots in the occult. Although draped in Christian terminology the work is clearly antichrist. Reconciliation of the writings of an apparent 20th century medium and the writings of first century Christians is not possible. Although A Course in Miracles claims to clarify or in some cases supercede the teachings of Christianity it's short history and roots in channeling make it, at least for most Christians, a work whos only quality is that it is a prime example of New Age, Antichrist propaganda.

So either you haven't quite reached that state of perfect love or... you are flip flopping again. But here you assume that God has the same reasons to forgive that you do. That is not the case! Human forgiveness makes you feel better about being offended. Whether by relieving your anger or by releasing a percieved debt. When you forgive the complete moronic hothead after that brief moment, who benifits? Certainly not him because at this point he does not know he has been forgiven. You are the beneficiary, because you release the negative feelings the offence may have caused. Divine forgiveness is not about making God feel better about the offense. Divine forgiveness is for the person who commited the offense to be freed from the negative feelings of commiting the offense. IMO God has no need to feel better about the offence but rather wants the person commiting the offence to be freed from whatever is causing them to commit the offense. As far as I can tell you have completly missed the point of Gods forgiveness.

So, you seem to be saying that other religions have a distorted view of forgiveness. My understanding of Judaism is that a person must go to the person he/she has harmed and ask forgivness before they are entitled to be forgiven. In Christianity Jesus tought in Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. Islam teaches, that the asking for divine forgiveness via repentance is important. In the case of human forgiveness, it is important to both forgive, and to be forgiven. In Hinduism asking forgiveness and performing atonement is part of the practice. Jainism asks forgiveness from all creatures from humans down to plants. I think maybe it is your view of forgiveness that is out of line with the norm. It seems to me that asking for forgiveness must be the precursor to being forgiven, for, if you do not ask for forgiveness you do not desire to be forgiven. BTW John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Is the perfect descripyion of Agape love. I always like to include verse 17 whenever quoting 3:16. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ROFLOL God has no need to "ferret" out offenses. Satan (the accuser of the brethren) does that. Forgiveness is not God's only purpose, although only he can forgive wrongs commited against him. I could go into other things God does but in no way could I give you an exhaustive list of what God does, and even if I could none of them may reveal the ultimate "purpose" of God.

Seems like you are pulling the old flip flop Fawzo. The one statement just doesn't seem to jive with the other. A rose by any other name, my friend, still smells the same. Ah ha, I see. Your god requires nothing because of a fear that if he required anything you would see him as lacking. My god requires adherence to certain rules or repentance for failure to follow said rules. Repentance involves a change of mind. Without repentance there can be no forgiveness. With repentance previous failures are forgiven & forgotten. Simple. Non painful and the blessings are out of this world.

That's quite a distorted view of God there Fawzo. Starting with an outlook like that it is not surprising that you would reject YHVH. None the less, the creation does not get to define the creator. If you choose to do so then you are creating your own god. Antisemitism noted. The god you have created for yourself, who loves unconditionally, who requires nothing from its follower, who does not care what you do, who brings all into its heaven/paradise, sounds to me like the god those like Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Dahmer, Manson and all the other tyrants and murderers of the world would accept since there are no repercussions for their evil acts.

Close ... God creaed a universe to serve His purpose. I'm wondering why you believe free will has screwed up the machinery. Perhaps you have God's will and your will confused. If you mean that God intended that man use his free will to choose to serve him (which Billions have) I think that may be correct.

I don't understand how/why people think they get to decide what God should do or not do. Does a child get to tell the parent what they can do? Certainly not if the parent is a good parent that wants to raise up a child into a solid, well behaved adult. I know that it's impossible (for me at least) to understand why evil people are allowed by God to live. It matters not to me. I believe it has to do with Adam/Eve's decision to want to know good and evil. Once the "cat is out of the bag" or the "genie is out of the bottle" it can not be put back in. Isaiah 55: 6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Av, Yes Yes I get all that. Grandmas family was well documented with a family geneology being published every so often. I remember seeing a copy when I was between 5 and 10 years old. It was huge. My guess now would be that it was 700 or more pages in the 60 's. I wasn't in the book but Grandma, my Father and I believe my my oldest brother or some of my older cousins were. I remember at my father's funeral my aunt saying that she had just got the new copy of the Richardson book. So when I started my research one of the first connections I made was with a cousin who's mother was the one who had the book. Whenever there was conflicting data returned I always went back to her tree for reconsiliation. Her work ended around 1200 so I'm pretty sure of everything to there. Since we can trace back to English Nobility as early as the 1600's everything from there is historical records. Hrodebert, Yes, Beli is as much legend as historical figure. After a certain point all English nobility points to him, I'l go ya one further ... Celtic tradition says Beli married (the or a) godess. Still, the legends exist also of it being the Prophetess so since that is the story I'd like to be true it's the one I'll tell my grandchildren. You say there is no historical basis for the legend of Joseph traveling to Britian yet I've seen reference to multiple historic documents that make the claim Joseph was there. As AV said , I wouldn't take it to court, but all legends have some basis in fact. Many of the legends surrounding Joseph have him trading in Britian before the Crusifixtion. Some even have Jesus travelling with him during his teen and early twenties (you know, those missing years from Jesus' life). Yes guys, I took it all with a grain of salt. Still, it makes for one heck of a story to tell, especially if I'm ever asked about my heratige.

Lol you may well be Brother Kaman .... You just can't follow the linage. Thanks Bro Hex. Brother Thorn ..... it's ok if you choose to rain on my parade ... I can handle it, but thanks for the congrats. I forgot to mention that there was a Saint in the Britain linage too: St. Ceneu ap Coel Hen N Britain 382-470

Found a note on the relationship of Joseph of Arimethia to Jesus: Provided tomb for the Body of Christ; was directed by St. Philip to take Christianity to Britain, landing near Wearyall Hill in Glastonbury, Somerset. The genealogies connecting Christ's family to Joseph are shown variously as brother, cousin, or uncle of Jesus

Well I've had an interesting last few days. My wife and I started talking about starting a family tree for the grandkids, so we signed up for the free trial at Ancestry.com. We both started working on our lines. I was able to trace my paternal grandfather back to the late 1400's. I found a lot of noteable people along the way, I found out when my ancestors came over on the boat. I now know who added the b in my last name. I traced them through England to a still existing "castle" (It was originally a Manor House that was later converted to a castle). Before the castle records became scarce quick. After running out of hints on that line I decided to trace my paternal grandmother. Grandma was the religious backbone in our family. Very active in the early pentacostal movement. She helped raise money to build the headquarters of the Church of God in Cleveland Tennesee. I was able to find My gg grandfather was a leader in the early Protestant movement. This line came from England but also Wales and The Isle of Mannn. Then to a man in the first century called Beli "The Great". They say Beli met and married his wife Anna while he was living in Rome with his exiled father. Later, when Beli regained the throne, he invited a group of Christians to live in Britain where they could worship as they pleased; Joseph of Arimathea was one of that group. Anna is also known as Anna "the Prophetess of Arimathea". Anna's exact connection with the Holy Family remains a mystery. She is said to be either the daughter of the Virgin Mary, a cousin of Mary, or niece of Mary. Another source claims she is a daughter of Joseph of Arimathea by his first wife Escha, his brother's widow. http://missouri-mule.com/hebrews.html Either way I have traced my liniage to New Testament Jews and, more importantly, to Jeshua himself because whether Anna was sister, 1st cousin or 2nd cousin to Jeshua, she was related. If, on the other hand, She was the daughter of Joseph of Arimethia she is still most likely related to Jesus as the Romans would have only released the body to a close family member. I believe Both were of the house of David. From there I can now trace roots to Abraham Issac and Jacob ... to Noah .... and even back to Adam! It is no surprise that YHWH is my God. Why would I choose any other god? I am a decendent of Adam, the man that YHWH made!

Wednesday, December 23, 2043 ... 81 years old But I disagree, I was promised 120 years and, although I have done things that could reduce that number, I don't think I've lost 39 years already.

Hi Salem! How has my favorite Wiccan Priestess? This is the first time I've seen a post from you since I've been back. Samtttl, I consider myself a Christian. I could just stop there, and you might think you have an idea of what I believe. On some points we would probably agree, however, I have doctrinal differences with all mainstream Christian sects (denominations). On the other hand I believe that all denominations have a part in the "body of Christ". I don't believe any of them have it all right, nor do they all have so much wrong within any group as to prohibit that sect from producing righteous followers. If you can agree with these three points I see you as a Christian brother/sister: In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the Earth. YHVH has rules that He expects man to live by. Yeshua came to Earth and died for the remission of sin and was raised from the grave so that that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. After that things aren't always as clear cut as most Christians seem to think, IMHO. YHVH has many covenants with mankind. Christians are not the only ones that will share in the eternal life. I wont go into each one but I'll gloss over a few covenants.Let's start with the Noahide Covenant. After the destruction of mans first civilization YHVH made a covenant with Noah. Within this covenant YHVH the Elohim set down governing laws for mankind. Observance of these laws imparts those followers with the blessings that YHVH promised to Noah and his descendants (all of mankind). All who accept the seven laws of Noah (not because they seem reasonable but because they come from G-d) will have a place in the resurrection. Then there is the covenant with Abram. This covenant is between YHVH and Abraham and his descendants. Abraham had a special covenant with YHVH. Because of Abraham's faith in YHVH he was given promises of blessings over and above those in the Noahide covenant. Another covenant was made with Moses and the twelve tribes. This is where the 613 mitzvot come into play and more blessings. Then comes what Christians call the new covenant. What this covenant does (again IMHO) is to offer the blessings of Abraham to those of the world who, by faith , were previously covered only by the Noahide covenant without conversion to Judaism. I could go on for days. Not just on the covenants, but on the nature of G-d, the will of G-d, Holy Scripture. I can't give you a clear picture of my entire belief system in one post. Perhaps if you poke & prod me enough you may come to understand what I believe and why I believe that way.

Prayed for a quick recovery Stormy.

I think Hyper is right ... this time.

Happy anniversary

ED 209