Fawzo

Not necessarily!

Each and every person though believes the way they do because they "believe" something to be true. What makes your beliefs and claims any more valid than anyone else? If you scrutinized your beliefs closely the same way you dismiss such claims by other religious icons you might be surprised by what you find. There is a growing large number of atheists and agnostics who were once strong believers as well in Christianity. Their ferverent search and insatiable thirst for knowledge about everything about Christianity led them to the point they are now. A case in point about faith and belief regardless of facts is Mormonism. I've heard that the book of Mormon claims that Native Americans are the direct descendants of Jews. Modern Genome DNA evidence shows that this isn't the case. Why are there still Mormons?

I'm reading an Interesting Book entitled Christian Delusion. Only partially through it but it states that if Christians followed the same scrutiny they do with other religions and even other denominations within their own religion, they would see the same ignorance in their own. Scientific test on the brain have showed that when presented with logical arguments to show them specific problems our brains don't use the logical portion of our brains but rather the emotional area. The author puts forth it is because We want to believe what we believe, we are enculturnated to believe what we were given to believe, and we want to fit in. We look for any tidbit to justify our own belief while ignoring mounains of data which conflict with reality. It is not just Christians which do this but almost everyone. Given the odds such as in Christianity where there are almost 40,000 denominations the odds that a person holds the true knowledge and path compared to others is pretty slim. Then throw in all the belief systems in the world and the margin gets lottery like.

Well after I logged off I spent two hours cleaning my room and just as I thought there was a wood floor under the mess. Just call me St. Fawzo now lol

I've heard of Elvis Costello but hes no Billy Joel or Elton John lol

When my room gets so cluttered that I can no longer see the floor, I realize that I've been in a funk and need to clean up. Its my Spirituality that affects me and whether I put everything where it belongs originally. The more times I go hiking and spend time reading the more Spiritual I feel as well. Too much television seems to really drag me down.

Enculturation!!! Enculturation is the process by which a person learns the requirements of the culture by which he or she is surrounded, and acquires values and behaviours that are appropriate or necessary in that culture.[1] As part of this process, the influences which limit, direct, or shape the individual (whether deliberately or not) include parents, other adults, and peers.[1] If successful, enculturation results in competence in the language, values and rituals of the culture.[1] The process of enculturation is related to socialization. In some academic fields, socialization refers to the deliberate shaping of the individual, in others, the word may be used to cover both deliberate and informal enculturation.[1] Conrad Phillip Kottak (in Window on Humanity ) writes: Enculturation is the process where the culture that is currently established teaches an individual the accepted norms and values of the culture or society in which the individual lives. The individual can become an accepted member and fulfill the needed functions and roles of the group. Most importantly the individual knows and establishes a context of boundaries and accepted behavior that dictates what is acceptable and not acceptable within the framework of that society. It teaches the individual their role within society as well as what is accepted behavior within that society and lifestyle" Enculturation can be conscious or unconscious, therefore can support both the Marxist and the hegemonic arguments. There are three ways a person learns a culture. Direct teaching of a culture is done, this is what happens when you don't pay attention, mostly by the parents , when a person is told to do something because it is right and to not do something because it is bad. For example, when children ask for something, they are constantly asked "What do you say?" and the child is expected to remember to say "please." The second conscious way a person learns a culture is to watch others around them and to emulate their behavior. An example would be using different slang with different cliques in school. Enculturation also happens unconsciously, through events and behaviors that prevail in their culture. All three kinds of culturation happen simultaneously and all the time. Enculturation helps mold a person into an acceptable member of society. Culture influences everything that a person does, whether they are aware of it or not. Enculturation is a lifelong process that helps unify people. Even as a culture changes, core beliefs, values, worldviews, and child-rearing practices stay the same. How many times has a parent said "If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?" when their child wanted to fit in with the crowd? Both are playing roles in the enculturation. The child wants to be included in the subculture of their peers, and the parent wants to instill individualism in the child, through direct teaching. Not only does one become encultured, but also makes someone else encultured

I never heard of half those groups, but I was a big big Devo fan. I loved their simple crazy lyrics. Pink **cat, Hes a Mongoloid, Whip it.....ah the good old days.

I listened but I'm an Eagles and Seals and Croft type person. The Avatar is poundtastic!!! I'm hoping "poundtatsic" is a Goth term for kewl lol

Should we tell him there is a Magick Spell that will turn witches to Christ without fail!

The Cloister and the Hearth From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Cloister and the Hearth (1861) is a historical novel by the English author Charles Reade. Set in the 15th century, it relates the story revolving about the travels of a young scribe and illuminator, Gerard Eliassoen, through several European countries. The Cloister and the Hearth often describes the events, people and their practices in minute detail. Its main theme is the struggle between man's obligations to family and to Church. Married to Margaret Brandt, Gerard sets off to Rome from Holland in order to escape the persecution of a vicious burgomaster as well as to earn money for the support of his family. Margaret awaits his return in Holland and in the meantime gives birth to his son. As Gerard is the favourite with his parents, his two dumb and ugly brothers decide to divert him from Holland and receive a larger share of fortune after their parents' death. They compose and dispatch a letter to Gerard informing him falsely that Margaret has died. Gerard believes the news and, stricken by grief, gives himself to a dissolute life and even attempts a suicide. After being saved from death by chance, he takes vows and becomes a Dominican friar. Later Gerard preaches throughout Europe and, while in Holland, discovers that Margaret is alive. He is afraid of temptation and in order to shun Margaret becomes a hermit. Margaret discovers Gerard's hiding place and convinces him to come back to normal life in which he becomes a vicar of a small town. Gerard and Margaret no longer live as a man and wife, but nevertheless see each other several times a week. A few years pass, Gerard's son grows up and is sent to a private school. Later, having heard that plague breaks out at the school, Margaret rushes to rescue her son, but contracts the disease herself and dies shortly afterwards. Gerard takes her demise painfully, renounces his vicarship and dies in a few weeks. The author of The Cloister and the Hearth, at the end of ths story, reveals that Margaret's and Gerard's son, also named Gerard, became the great Catholic scholar and Humanist, Erasmus of Rotterdam, a major historical figure. Indeed, little is actually known about Erasmus' actual parentage (apparently illegitimate), though his parents were in reality named Margaret and Roger Gerard. Reade was apprently using his imagination to fill in some historical gaps in Erasmus' background. The Cloister and the Hearth can easily be read as an attack on various requirements of Catholic priesthood that prevented Margaret's and Gerard's love from continuing to be consummated; and this attack is very consistent with some of Erasmus' thought. I use to read this book every three years!!!

A church should be full of fellowship, love, compassion and acceptance, which if you weren't so busy judging everyone here you would see fills these sacred halls of ours. God created diversity not clones.

Something from further Jewish texts. .

She was a lesbian it would be only natural that she knew no man. Quite natural really, happens all the time. There are cultures which celebrate death and see it for the miracle that it is. I am one such person. I think RabbiO could enlighten us on this further though the word and story seem quite straightforward when read without modifications to fit and rationalize a belief system. BTW - How many other temple Virgins must there had been through the ages? The women in Israel must have went crazy celebrating them all !

The best I can help you, is to give you some ancient wise advice. "That which you struggle against you soon become" Why would God need your help to defeat Satan, and on top of that why would you in turn need ours. What does Satan have to do with Wicca?

In the Jane Roberts Seth material he speaks of EE units and CU units, which are electrical and consciousness Units Here ia a link that explains it in detail faculty.physics.tamu.edu/bryan/ColoradoSethConf2006.ppt

I think the last verse leaves little doubt he killed her "And it was a custom in Israel, 40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year." Judges 11:39-40 (KJV) Why would all the daughters of Israel go out 4 days out of year to lament someone who was dedicated to the temple.

lol That might be the plea issued by his followers after the Fundalmentalist Christian God is found guilty and beheaded for crimes against all sentient beings, but I don't think he could make that claim himself. Who is holding him hostage, another portion of himself the Bible does not dare speak of the Holy Terrorist?

A lot of times you can sense and feel that someone is nearby even without seeing that someone. One can fell the electrical effect just getting very close to anothers skin without even actually touching it all the way. How many times have you felt that someone was watching you to turn and find out that someone was watching you. I guess the more paranoid someone is could have an effect on the last statement.

I wonder if we had a mock trial and tried God for Nazi War crimes how that would work out? What would his plea be to begin the trial?

To be fair in the Jephthah story no where does God encourage nor discourage this lunatics actions. I think from the Abraham story (which is sick as well) people expect God to supply an alternative sacrifice.

Do you think many children would be alive if we followed what the Bible says about disobedient children. I wonder how many of us here would have survived if society followed the barbaric dictates of the Bible. These laws are not the will of any omnisciet loving God, but rather the outgrowth of unsophisticated Iron Age men who feared for their own survival. If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15 He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17 The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137:9

Dan I think you are familar with the way most humans love where they create an image in their mind that either fullfills themself or mirrors themself. When they meet someone or thing which does so they fall in love. When the person or thing doesn't match up with their image the image gets broken and love can turn to hate in some cases. God's love isn't like this it is an energy which permeates the Universe and there are no expectations involved. Especially if God is Omniscient, then expectations do not exist as God has complete knowledge. True love doesn't expect anything in return, it is constantly giving of itself freely. Did the writers of Corinthians expect us to have a purer love than what it was possible for God to exhume? Do you think it possible that the liberal Christians here and myself could be MORE LOVING AND COMPASSIONATE THAN GOD?!?!?!?! Shouldn't God's love and compassion far exceed anything that our brothers and sisters here could possibly exhibit?

I wanted to add a note on the nice rosy picture Dan painted of slavery in the Bible. The worse example of OT barbarism is the verse where it states it is ok to beat and kill a slave as long as he lives and suffers for two days before he dies because "he is your property". That is just plain sick and twisted!!!! The following is from http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm Slavery in the Bible Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves. Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock. The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock. However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated. If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT) Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these? The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave? When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them! What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing. When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

And what did Jesus tell you the commandments of God are? What is the definition of Agape love (aka charity) as given in Corinthians? What does the word "all" mean to you... some...most... all but one or two..a few? What does the word "never" mean to you .... sometimes....often..every other sunday? What exists that wasn't created by God? Is there another creator, if not then everything is God and was created by God? When you love your neighbor in effect you are loving God. That is why Jesus said what you do to the least of these you do unto me. Jesus came to do away with the barbaric practices that are outlined in the Law. It truly was a curse.