Fawzo

Well I'm probably not the first to say it, but I need great sayings like that to keep pace with the company I keep Lucky for us when Dad turns on the nightlight he doesn't turn it off until all his children make it home.

His father said to him, 'My child, you're always with me. Everything I have is yours. 32 But we have something to celebrate, something to be happy about. This brother of yours was dead but has come back to life. He was lost but has been found.'" Luke 15:31-32 (GW) In short my answer to your question is Yes. The point of the prodigal son to me is about a person who follows the call of the ego which only holds our attention for so long. When the awareness of how much more blissful things are at home hits us, we turn humbly and return home to open arms and rejoin in the Sonship of God where we have everything. The desire for more and adventure is the hook the ego lures us away with. Love is the light that leads us home. Not threats of hell and eternal damnation.

I was thinking about how the simple act of turning one's focus onto God and how that might be all that is needed for "forgiveness" and how this theme should run through the other parables and it does in a couple that came to my mind immediately. The Prodigal Son merely had to seek out his father and all was forgiven, and in the the parable of the wedding all those who were invited who had there focus elsewhere were left outside, but those who dropped their common everyday chores and turned their attention onto the bride and groom got a treat. This would resonate with my belief system in that forgiveness isn't an external act it's a focus and awareness of the love and glory of the Unconditional Love of God who wills that none should perish. Thanks Coolhand for bringing this up.

Some great points Hexalpa. I never noticed those incongruities before. I always just had a problem with Jesus planting in a rocky, thorny area with paths and weeds instead of finding a nice fertile field. I guess he was a carpenter or mason after all and farming wasn't his thing

"otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" Coolhand I think we discussed before where I had a problem with an Omniscient deity casting seed where the conditions weren't optimal for seed growth. I was wondering if you would enlighten me on a more accurate translation for what the words "might turn" could be rendered as. This might give the parable a new twist for me. From other Bible versions I get "return to me" "convert" "turn back" "might return and be forgiven" "Otherwise, they will turn to me and be forgiven " and I always love the way the Message version of the Bible puts scripture These are people— <BR style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1em"></SPAN>Whose eyes are open but don't see a thing, Whose ears are open but don't understand a word, Who avoid making an about-face and getting forgiven." I think the translation of this text may also point out the gap between Fundalmentalist and Liberals. I would think many liberals would say that forgiveness is just that easy as turning ones focus back on God.

Sort of like the irrelevant point of how Liberal Christians are viewed by Orthodox ones. I got tired of watching this dog chase its tail days ago.

I thought the problem was that they all were avergae and thats why they aren't performing the same miracles Yeshua did and more

Woozers, I must be a liberal Christian also then and a liberal Buddhist too boot, or maybe I should just label myself a fundalmentalist ChristBud with a beautiful flower about to spring forth.

I think about the other chracaters that are created during my dream. Quite often it seems as if they have their own consciousness apart from mine. It is true that at times they behave as my thought processes dictate and imagine, but at other times they seem totally independent and behaving in a manner that is totally opposed to my will and desire. It might appear that these later entities in effect "sin" against me, but do they or is it even possible that they have the ability to "sin" against me. Some portion of God might be in the same psyhcological state. Could God's desire for companionship have lead to a split in the mind of God. I've been trying to have an intervention for him for years now. But I doubt if a wise man would make the same claim. I think the problem comes in with them being funda-MENTAL-ist lol

If God was all there was then how can there be anything except God? He couldn't be anything other than himself since Himself is all there ever was and or will be. How would a deity created anything other? He doesn't have building blocks or even the dust of the earth to create anything with. It would seem as if thought forms are his tools. He would be creating in a similar manner as we do when we dream at night. We create whole worlds and communities that exist only in our minds and seem quite concrete and real while focused in them. Now if he wasn't really All That Is and Others existed then thats a whole other scenario.

Sounds very similar to our July 4th celebration. Do you folks have a similar event like our Connie Island hot dog eating contest?

http://members.bib-arch.org/publication.asp?PubID=BSBA&Volume=34&Issue=2&ArticleID=11 http://www.matrifocus.com/LAM04/spotlight.htm

Ahh hes cute....somehow I missed this topic but I'm now sending little Daniel lots of love and positive energy.

Yes Happy Dominion Day to all our Northern brother and sisters. What does one do on Dominion Day? Is it a paid Holiday from work in all Canadian Provinces?

And I have no problem whatsoever with your belief system friend. It works for you and you're not one going around condemning others and telling them your way is the only way, even if your faith in the "NEED" for the cross may hint at it rather strongly. Your tolerance, wisdom and compassion has been evident to myself and I'm sure all others who tread these sacred halls. It brings you great comfort and I am gladdened by that. You stated in an earlier post that you believed God needed the blood sacrifice, before he could offer us forgiveness. It just strikes me a bit odd that God would "Need" anything. Yet if he desires anything or creates anything than it seems aparent to me, he must have needs. Saying God is NEEDY makes me reflect.

Lets throw in the likelyhood that there was no Adam and Eve and no original sin and evolution was how we got here, and therefore no need for the sacrifice of the cross, lets toss all the cosmological Biblical events and myths such as Global floods and Human swallowing fish and there seems to me to be a large pile of evidence that the Bible is nothing more than a made for TV movie script. "War of the Worlds" only on the literary side and the authors aren't still around to apologize and say it was only for entertainment.

Actual physical evidence from archeological digs with pottery and temples with Yaweh and Asherah on them from Syria and other regions. Seems Yaweh and Asherah had a thing going on until Asherah started a fling with Baal.

My point was to show that there is physical evidence which strongly suggests that just as there are parrallel Mesopatamian stories which pre-dated the Biblical stories, even the names and labels given to God by the Israelites could very well be carry overs from the surrounding cultures as well.

Wikipedia on the origins of Yaweh. Development of Yahweh worship Historians of the ancient near east offer viewpoints that describe worship of Yahweh as originating in pre-Israelite peoples of the Levant and evolving gradually from polytheism to monolatry to monotheism rather than the traditional view that worship of Yahweh was monotheistic from its beginning with the revelation to Moses at the burning bush.[112] Theophoric names, names of local gods similar to Yahweh, and archaeological evidence are used along with the Biblical source texts to build theories regarding pre-Israel origins of Yahweh worship, the relationship of Yahweh with local gods, and the manner in which polytheistic worship of Yahweh worship evolved into Jewish monotheism.[113] One hypothesis presented in 2008 on the PBS science show Nova suggests that rebelling Canaanites, in an effort to create a clean national myth, perused the sagas of a minor group of Canaanite slave refugees from Egypt, acquiring the deity Yahweh from the Shasu people of Midian. The documentary points out that the Bible itself mentions that Moses first encountered Yahweh as a burning bush in Midian.[114] An Egyptian inscription also makes reference to these people using the name Yahua/Yahweh. The Exodus narrative is viewed, by Karel van der Toorn, as a "charter myth" offered by King Jeroboam for political purposes and later developed into the fabric of religious history by the Yahwist, Elohist, and Deuteronomistic sources.[115] The Kenite hypothesis describes Yahweh worship as originating among the Kenite peoples of northern Midian/southern Edom in the 13th and 14th centuries BCE and being shared with the Hebrews through contacts with their neighbors.[116] Van der Toorn suggests that Yahweh was the family deity of King Saul who promoted Yahweh worship as the official Israelite state religion after his rise to power. The transition from the traditional religions practiced at the family level to the state religion of Yahwism is described as a gradual process with the authorities active on two fronts: they endowed the state religion with temples, a clergy, a national charter myth, and they sought to curb the traditional religions opposed to Yahweh worship by integration of some and suppression of other aspects of the traditional religions practiced at the local and family levels.[117] Both the archaeological evidence and the Biblical texts document tensions between groups comfortable with the worship of Yahweh along side of local deities such as Asherah and Baal and those insistent on worship of Yahweh alone during the monarchal period.[118] The Deuteronomistic source gives evidence of a strong monotheistic party during the reign of king Josiah during the late 7th century BCE, but the strength and prevalence of earlier monotheistic worship of Yahweh is widely debated based on interpretations of how much of the Deuteronomistic history is accurately based on earlier sources, and how much has been re-worked by Deuteronomistic redactors to bolster their theological views.[119] The archaeological record documents widespread polytheism in and around Israel during the period of the monarchy.[120] For example, a tenth century (BCE) cult stand from Taanach (a town in Northern Israel, near Megiddo) has unambiguous polytheistic implications. The stand has four levels, or registers. On the bottom register, or level four, there is a female figure with hands resting upon the heads of lions standing on either side. The female figure can be interpreted as a goddess, either Asherah, Astarte, or Anat. The third register has two winged sphinx type figures with a vacant space between them. The second level contains a sacred tree flanked on both sides by ibexes standing on their hind legs. The top register shows a quadruped (either a bovine or a horse) with a sun disk above it. It is unclear whether Taanach was under Israelite or Canaanite control when the stand was produced, and interpretations vary.[121] If the quadruped on the top level is taken as a bovine, it can be identified as either Yahweh or Baal. The solar disk above the quadruped is representative of either the sun god or the sky.[122] Most authors agree that the sacred tree on the second register should be identified as an asherah, though the stylized tree is often viewed as a cult object rather than an image of a goddess.[123] The winged sphinx type figures on the second level have been interpreted as cherubim with the space in between them representing the invisible Yahweh as "enthroned upon the cherubim" although the empty space has also been interpreted as allowing observers to view a fire or figurine inside the square stand.[124] Though a variety of interpretations are possible, Mark S. Smith concludes, "In short, assuming the correct dating of this stand to the tenth century, the stand attests to polytheism in this area."[125] Another example of polytheism in the southern Levant was the discovery of a combination of iconography and inscriptions at a religious center/lodging place for travelers at Kuntillet 'Ajrud, in the northern Sinai desert that dates to the 8th century BCE.[126] Among various other artifacts was a large storage jar that has attracted much attention. The side of the jar contains iconography showing three anthropomorphic figures and an inscription that refers to "Yahweh … and his asherah". The inscription lead to some early identifications of two standing figures in the foreground as representing Yahweh and his consort Asherah, but later work identified them as Bes figures.[127] A number of scholars, including William G. Dever,[128] and Judith Hadley[129] continue to interpret the inscription in a way that it refers to Asherah as an Israelite goddess and consort of Yahweh. William Dever authored a book, "Did God Have a Wife?" that references archaeological evidence pointing to many female figurines unearthed in ancient Israel supporting his hypothesis that Asherah functioned as a goddess and consort of Yahweh in Israelite folk religion of the monarchal period. One reviewer says Dever's "case is full of holes and the book is full of misinformation."[130] In contrast to interpretations of "asherah" as a goddess in the Kuntillet 'Ajrud inscriptions, a number of other authors, including Mark S. Smith,[131] John Day,[132] and Andre Lemaire,[133] view the asherah in these inscriptions as a cult object, stylized tree, or location of worship through which Yahweh's blessing was imparted rather than a goddess who could function as a consort.[134] "Neither the iconography nor the texts force us to interpret the relationship between 'Yahweh ... and his asherah' in Iron Age IIB in the sense of a (sexually-determined) relationship of two forces that are paired and thus compel us to assume that asherah has the status as a partner. 'Yahweh's asherah' does not have equal rank with Yahweh but is rather a mediating entity that brings his blessing and is conceived in the mind in the shape of a stylized tree that was thus subordinate to Yahweh."[135] Archaeologists and historical scholars use a variety of ways to organize and interpret the available iconographic and textual information. William G. Dever contrasts "official religion/state religion/book religion" of the elite with "folk religion" of the masses.[136] Rainer Albertz contrasts "official religion" with "family religion", "personal piety", and "internal religious pluralism".[137] Jacques Berlinerblau analyzes the evidence in terms of "official religion" and "popular religion" in ancient Israel.[138] In a book described by William G. Dever as a "landmark study",[139] Patrick D. Miller has broadly grouped the worship of Yahweh in ancient Israel into three broad categories: orthodox, heterodox, and syncretistic (Miller acknowledges that one man's orthodoxy is another man's heterodoxy and that orthodoxy was not a fixed and unchanging reality in the religion of ancient Israel). Yahweh by historians In contrast to the tradition of Mosaic authorship, the documentary hypothesis employs source criticism to interpret different character attributes as originating in four distinct source documents of the Torah.[163] For example, anthropomorphic descriptions, visits from Yahweh and use of the personal name prior to Exodus 3 are attributed to the Jahwist source.[84] Use of the generic title, Elohim, and descriptions of Yahweh of a more impersonal nature (for example, speaking through dreams and angels rather than personal appearances) are attributed to the Elohist source.[164] Descriptions of Yahweh as particularly concerned with whether Judah's kings were good or bad and with centralized temple worship are attributed to the Deuteronomist source.[165] Passages that portray Yahweh as acting through the Aaronid priesthood and temple-based sacrificial system are described as originating with the Priestly source.[166] Historians of the ancient near east describe worship of Yahweh as originating in pre-Israelite peoples of the Levant rather than in a divine revelation to Moses.[167] Theophoric names, names of local gods similar to Yahweh, and archaeological evidence are used along with the Biblical source texts to describe pre-Israel origins of Yahweh worship, the relationship of Yahweh with local gods, and the manner in which Yahweh worship evolved into Jewish monotheism. In contrast, scholars who employ methods allowing for supernaturalism and divine inspiration continue to interpret the Biblical portrayal of Yahweh in a manner consistent with faith-based views.[168] Worship of Yahweh alone is a central idea of historical Judaism.[169] Much of Christianity views Jesus as the human incarnation of Yahweh.[170] The importance of the divine name and the character of the "one true God" revealed as Yahweh are often contrasted with the significantly different character of rival deities known by different names in the traditional polytheistic religions.[171]

I didn't mean to infer that the method was a failure, but that it seemed to work just as well as any other method. If there were a reliable way to confirm results I would wager that Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, ACIM pratictioners and other traditions would all have an equal percentage of prayers answered successfully. One would think with the added promised advantage with the use of the name of Jesus that Christian Prayers being answered would be noticeably higher. As I said, you, I and the other Christians here know many instances where two or three or more have gathered in the name of Jesus and petitioned God and got nothing more often than not. Coolhand I witnessed a little child who my mom use to babysit and had water on the brain and was to be operated on within a few days be engulfed by that Agape Loving light I encountered and the child was healed immediately and needed no operation. I have been involved in other instances where even co-workers have called me to pray for their loved ones who were in deep trouble and there have been other healings as well. I had nothing to do with any of these healings, but I have been privileged enough to petition God that his perfect will be done in each instance. That is what I pray for in most instances "that God's perfect will be done." I do pray that two people in my life lead a life full o health, happiness and love. That is the only thing I ask of God for myself, besides my request that he leads me in his perfect will. I don't know where you get those perceptions. I believe in the supernatural and so do most the liberal Christians I know. Miracles can be found occurring in many belief systems, Christians don't hold any copyrights. See the Miracles of Buddha http://en.wikipedia....acles_of_Buddha. Now you might read these and say to yourself how ridiculous how could anyone believe any of this superstitious nonsense, but if you look at some the events in the Bible objectively you could justifiably ask the same question.

An experiment was held once where people prayed to the Christian God for a specific result and others prayed to an empty milk jug. The percentage of prayers answered by both were pretty much equal. I think all the Christians here have known many people and groups in instances where people have prayed in the name of Jesus and have gotten squat, The response will be that they ask amiss, so it seems to me that it is not the name of Jesus from which prayers are answered but the intention and harmonic relationship one has with deity that is important.

Might also be a circumstance of a people without any culture that had to borrow and rework stories from their neighbors. If as some archaeologist suggest and the Israelites were just a collection of misplaced Canaanites then that would make sense. In either case the likely hood that such stories are the word of God are very remote. Where have I ever demonized and mistreated Christians here. I have pointed out inconsistencies and portions of their belief system which seems very foolish to me and others. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make it an attack. And I would never be so arrogant and as bold to make the statements you make such as: " It has been my experience and I have witnessed this through many others as well, that the Bible is accurate and is the only tool that exists to assists us in drawing close to God, gain victory over the enemy, and it works." Not in the narrative, but the concept itself taken literally. For Hell to exist as an actual place then that means that God fails and he had to create a place to take care of his failures. According to Christian scripture his ability to convey his awesome capabilities and have them worshiped by the masses is minimal. The road to such awareness is narrow and the path to Hell is massive. God utterly fails. It seems he didn't learn anything from 1/3 of the Angels turning on him and His next attempt at attaining adoration and worship from His creations has gotten exponentially worse. God creates defective junk with fatal inherent flaws according to the Bible. Where is there any Omniscience in that? Yes an eternity of punishment for a finite crime is perfect justice for eating bacon or saying God Damn it!

I agree completely. My ego is bad enough to wrestle against and it wins more often than not in hand to hand combat. I wouldn't stand a chance even yelling out every name that God and Jesus is known by in every language on the planet against invisible horned creatures. If it worked and evil perished why is there still crime and Christians speeding and being gluttonous on Sabbath lol

Coolhand maybe the lake of fire is a metaphor which represents the gulf which separates us when we are swimming within the burning desires of the ego.

My focus is on beingness and harmony and having all beings resonate within the love of God removing the distinctions that appear to separate us. One of those being the idea that anyones belief system is the only true belief system and that it is ok to judge, demonize, mistreat and kill others who don't capitulate to it.