Converts

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

 

Disobedience isn't a trap,  Eve was given a choice, and she chose death.. God gave man dominion over all the earth (Genesis 1:26), so all life suffers and dies in a fallen world.  The only thing 'unjust' is mankind, we wanted the knowledge of evil and God delivered it big time. The mauled young men got off lucky, mocking God has serious repercussions.. Sin=death, Christ willingly paid that price for the remission of our sins. As I said, we perceive things completely different, where you see a cruel and unjust God, I see a compassionate and loving God. 

 

 

It didn't happen like you perceive it did. The bible follows God's own people (the descendants of Adam). All of their land flooded  (the world they occupied). Whereby, fish did not die, neither did all plant life (Genesis 8:11). India, Australia,  Europe, the US, and most of China was not affected by Noah's flood.

 

 

You really are making this up as you go.  Why the Ark?  All animal life had to be saved from destruction -- for a strictly local disaster?

 

I think Ken Ham and his A.I.G. (answers in Genesis) does a better job of speaking for main line Evangelicals.  Your view is minority.

 

 

 

[RevBogovac]

3 hours ago, Dan56 said:

[...] God gave man dominion over all the earth (Genesis 1:26), so all life suffers and dies in a fallen world. [...] where you see a cruel and unjust God, I see a compassionate and loving God.  [...]

 

Yes, we definitely do; punishing someone (or even something) that isn't at fault is the very definition of unjust.

 

But hey, good news: you and your god are a perfect match! (One would almost think you are one and the same.)

 

Have fun with him for eternity... 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Yes, we definitely do; punishing someone (or even something) that isn't at fault is the very definition of unjust.

 

But hey, good news: you and your god are a perfect match! (One would almost think you are one and the same.)

 

Have fun with him for eternity... 

 

 

 

I don't know who said it.  "God is like a mirror.  The mirror never changes, but everyone who looks into it will see something different."

 

 

 

[mark 45]

6 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

You really are making this up as you go.  Why the Ark?  All animal life had to be saved from destruction -- for a strictly local disaster?

 

I think Ken Ham and his A.I.G. (answers in Genesis) does a better job of speaking for main line Evangelicals.  Your view is minority.

 

 

 

no one is going to agree,even mainline evangelicals on the flood story. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, mark 45 said:

no one is going to agree,even mainline evangelicals on the flood story. 

 

 

Of course not.  It's such badly written, implausible, fiction.  The hard part is taking any of it seriously.  All those animals.  Think of the tons of poop.  Think of the methane gas.  All of them peeing.  The food storage.  The water storage.  It's all so silly.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

11 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Disobedience isn't a trap,  Eve was given a choice, and she chose death.. God gave man dominion over all the earth (Genesis 1:26), so all life suffers and dies in a fallen world.  The only thing 'unjust' is mankind, we wanted the knowledge of evil and God delivered it big time. The mauled young men got off lucky, mocking God has serious repercussions.. Sin=death, Christ willingly paid that price for the remission of our sins. As I said, we perceive things completely different, where you see a cruel and unjust God, I see a compassionate and loving God. 

 

 

It didn't happen like you perceive it did. The bible follows God's own people (the descendants of Adam). All of their land flooded  (the world they occupied). Whereby, fish did not die, neither did all plant life (Genesis 8:11). India, Australia,  Europe, the US, and most of China was not affected by Noah's flood.

So he's only a 'local' deity?  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

30 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

So he's only a 'local' deity?  

 

 

A tribal god.     

[Key]

7 hours ago, mark 45 said:

no one is going to agree,even mainline evangelicals on the flood story. 

To be honest, considering the altitude of mountain ranges in the region, for them to be covered by water, the effects would not just be limited to a "local" area, anyway. So, reasonable doubt does exist, simply because no corresponding incidences of it were felt elsewhere in the world worthy enough to be recorded, at least that I'm aware of.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, Key said:

To be honest, considering the altitude of mountain ranges in the region, for them to be covered by water, the effects would not just be limited to a "local" area, anyway. So, reasonable doubt does exist, simply because no corresponding incidences of it were felt elsewhere in the world worthy enough to be recorded, at least that I'm aware of.

 

 

Reasonable doubt?     Think of the endless bog.  Rotting vegetation.  Dead animals bloating in the Sun.  Deep mud.  Everywhere.  Think of the stench.  What did they eat?  Agriculture wouldn't work.  The land has been soaked in salt water.  No hunting for food.  No live animals.  For that matter -- no shelter.  All the wood is rotten.  The trees have all drowned.  The grass is dead.  There are no living roots.  Mud slides, everywhere.  When things do dry out -- it's dust bowl time.

 

When the mountains are under water -- the ecco system dies.

 

[Dan56]

16 hours ago, mark 45 said:

no one is going to agree,even mainline evangelicals on the flood story. 

 

 This is true, most believe it was a worldwide flood, but I don't. 

 

12 hours ago, cuchulain said:

So he's only a 'local' deity?  

 

Yes.. The entire old testament pretty much illustrates that, it mainly follows the people of which Messiah would come.. Salvation came to all afterwards.

 

8 hours ago, Key said:

To be honest, considering the altitude of mountain ranges in the region, for them to be covered by water, the effects would not just be limited to a "local" area, anyway. So, reasonable doubt does exist, simply because no corresponding incidences of it were felt elsewhere in the world worthy enough to be recorded, at least that I'm aware of.

 

That's my thinking, a worldwide flood would have destroyed everything. When something seems illogical, its usually being misinterpreted.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

24 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

 This is true, most believe it was a worldwide flood, but I don't. 

 

 

Yes.. The entire old testament pretty much illustrates that, it mainly follows the people of which Messiah would come.. Salvation came to all afterwards.

 

 

That's my thinking, a worldwide flood would have destroyed everything. When something seems illogical, its usually being misinterpreted.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

 

 

 This is true, most believe it was a worldwide flood, but I don't. 

 

I read the Book.  The Book says it was a world wide flood.

 

That's my thinking, a worldwide flood would have destroyed everything. When something seems illogical, its usually being misinterpreted.

 

When something is illogical, it is often not true at all.  Yes.  If that silly story had been true, the World would have been destroyed -- and we would not be talking about it.  I conclude from this that the story is not true.  I further conclude that Scripture is not true.

 

 

 

[Pete]

I don't believe in a biblical world wide flood and think the story of Noah is adopted from other religions.  However, this does look interesting. 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2000/sep/14/internationalnews.archaeology

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

I don't believe in a biblical world wide flood and think the story of Noah is adopted from other religions.  However, this does look interesting. 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2000/sep/14/internationalnews.archaeology

 

 

Yes.  It is interesting.  You'll note that this is about sea level rising.  Heavy debate is still going on about the location of Atlantis, which has it's own mythology.

 

Sea level rise is still a hot issue.  Over in Italy, Venice is slowly submerging.  In America, Florida is slowly drowning. Along with other areas of America.  Various islands all over the world are going through this.  Of course, Fundamentalists don't want to hear about climate change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Key]

43 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Yes.  It is interesting.  You'll note that this is about sea level rising.  Heavy debate is still going on about the location of Atlantis, which has it's own mythology.

 

Sea level rise is still a hot issue.  Over in Italy, Venice is slowly submerging.  In America, Florida is slowly drowning. Along with other areas of America.  Various islands all over the world are going through this.  Of course, Fundamentalists don't want to hear about climate change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine that. Think all that ice melting from Greenland had something to do with it? 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

10 minutes ago, Key said:

Imagine that. Think all that ice melting from Greenland had something to do with it? 

 

 

 

Of course.  The Polar ice caps are melting.  It's time to stop burning coal.     

 

Any serious Fundamentalist will remind us of the rainbow.  God put the rainbow in the sky -- as a promise that the world would not drown again.  Maybe the Fundamentalists should start flying the rainbow flag.          

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Key]

2 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

 

Of course.  The Polar ice caps are melting.  It's time to stop burning coal.     

 

 

Sarcasm, friend. Used your usual whistling emoji for that as a hint.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 minutes ago, Key said:

Sarcasm, friend. Used your usual whistling emoji for that as a hint.

 

 

Yes.  I saw it.     

 

Did you see my comment about the flag?    

 

 

[mark 45]

i did 😋.

[Dan56]

4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I read the Book.  The Book says it was a world wide flood.

Of course, Fundamentalists don't want to hear about climate change.

 

Your just unfamiliar with biblical terminology, if you substitute the word 'world' with 'land', you'll recognize the whole world did not go under water, 'erets' is specific to a large area of land/earth directly related to the story being told..

 

Most fundamentalist believe in climate change, we just don't accept all of the scientific propaganda that insinuates people are the cause of it. Longer term history demonstrates radical climate change has always existed. They say that the North Pole is getting warmer, but they fail to mention that Antarctica is simultaneously getting colder.  The North Pole is becoming warmer, the South Pole is becoming colder

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

55 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

Your just unfamiliar with biblical terminology, if you substitute the word 'world' with 'land', you'll recognize the whole world did not go under water, 'erets' is specific to a large area of land/earth directly related to the story being told..

 

Most fundamentalist believe in climate change, we just don't accept all of the scientific propaganda that insinuates people are the cause of it. Longer term history demonstrates radical climate change has always existed. They say that the North Pole is getting warmer, but they fail to mention that Antarctica is simultaneously getting colder.  The North Pole is becoming warmer, the South Pole is becoming colder

 

 

Is that why the mainstream Evangelical thought -- of which Ken Ham is typical -- is dominant?  While your contention is minority?

 

Of course the World was not destroyed by the Great Flood.  That is how we are here now -- to discuss it.

 

That is another reason why I don't take Genesis seriously.  I read the Book.  I see how mainline Evangelicals understand the Book.  They are all over You Tube.  Do you want links?  They have their own explanations about how this happened.   They explain their interpretations.  They are the mainstream of Evangelical thought.  Your minority opinion does not concern me.  

 

You have been clear all along, that your beliefs are more important to you than facts.  It's too late now, to appeal to reality.  Your cherry picking has become tedious.  I'm tired of you making things up as you go along.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl