Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Pacifist?

[Ex Nihilo]

Sometimes, or in most things, I am a Pacifist. I am a Veteran, a gun owner and a patriot. I believe in the Non-aggression Principle. This principle equates to this...leave me alone to do as I please. Try to "force me" to do something and I'll strike back like a Pit Bull on steroids! I like to be left alone. If my life doesn't pose a threat to anyone else, leave me be.

I too support the nonagression principle. People should be free from violence, and should violence be impressed upon them, they should be free to defend themselves effectively. It's the first principle of individual liberty.

[RevTom]

Likewise; I am a live and let live person - if we can mutually exist with peace and respect for one another's rights, that is the way I like to live. A friend once put it thus: "I am a mirror - project kindness and you get kindness returned. Project hostility, and that is what you will have returned". The only difference is I will try to avoid fighting or war. It is when it becomes apparent the aggressor will not accept peace that there becomes a problem.

[Etherman]

I voted not pacifist. I'm against the initiation of violence, but I find violence is is a perfectly acceptable reaction to someone molesting, or attempting to molest, one's property (which includes one's own body). On a national level the same logic holds. The nation should not go to war unless attacked or under immanent threat. Our reaction to violence should be quick, decisive, and put and end to further hostility.

[Youch]

I am not a worm.

now Happy, what does this mean? are you calling your erstwhile friend grateful and others ..... worms? (or did I miss something?)

A worm is what I think of when I think of a pacifist. But Verisoph below refines the term a bit, forcing me to be more specific as well.

Further, if you're going to bring evolution into the picture, you're wrong. A creature that will not kill any other creature is exactly what evolution has created ... through survival. Being something that doesn't kill is what survives best.

So, you come to this forum from another universe? In mine, virtually all life is ready and capable of defending itself from harm or death regardless of the threat, which in life happens as a course of nature.

Nonsense! Sparrows kill all sorts fo creatures, but they do not kill other sparrows, Bees will try to kill creatures that threaten their hive, even commiting suicide in the process. But, they do not kill other bees of their type. This is how most creatures behave. Have you ever heard of a cat bringing a dead cat home to it's owner.

Cats kill each other all over the world every day.

But lets focus like a laser beam for a moment. Let's agree that a term like "pacifist" can only apply to a predator who has decided not to prey on one's own species no matter what the circumstances. So, examples like birds and bees and worms are silly......they are not predators. Otherwise, we'd soon be talking about the consciousness of grass and then nestingwave will come in with all sorts of 'evidence' and.....

[panpareil]

The assumption that a pacifist must have originally been a predator can also be questioned. They may just as easily be a vegetarian prey animal that chooses not to defend itself. The example being the bovine, whose most typical example is the cow. The cow is quit capable of killing a puny human but has been made so docile by domestication that they now are subject to tipping by bored teenagers. When they were feral they were quite another beast, and one that was hunted by only the bravest. I think the key component to pacifism is domestication, in the case of humans, state or societal domestication. This is something that has to be done each generation or there is an immediate return to the natural feral state.

[Rev. Troy Natereli]

I voted not pacifist. I'm against the initiation of violence, but I find violence is is a perfectly acceptable reaction to someone molesting, or attempting to molest, one's property (which includes one's own body). On a national level the same logic holds. The nation should not go to war unless attacked or under immanent threat. Our reaction to violence should be quick, decisive, and put and end to further hostility.

I agree.

[Feldgangende]

I am not a pacifist. I teach self-defense, and have an amazing range of weaponry around my house (mostly hand-to-hand, but a few thrown, some bows, and blackpowder). However, I am not a violent person.

There is a mention of being pacifist, but defending the country. This standpoint at times confuses me, as our country is constantly starting wars- look through the de-classified CIA files. So many people fled the US during the Vietnam conflict since it was in illegal war on our part, and even consciounses objectors were drafted, and told to serve the war effort, albeit by cooking, medic, etc. They still had to partake, even in a non-violent fashion, in that war.

Whatever we may like to think of him, bin Laden was a regional patriot, and from their perspective he was fighting the good fight. He simply wanted the Middle East left alone- the USSR out of Afghanistan, the US out of Kuwait, the US out of Iraq, the US out of Afghanistan

[Fawzo]

I am not a pacifist. I teach self-defense, and have an amazing range of weaponry around my house (mostly hand-to-hand, but a few thrown, some bows, and blackpowder). However, I am not a violent person.

There is a mention of being pacifist, but defending the country. This standpoint at times confuses me, as our country is constantly starting wars- look through the de-classified CIA files. So many people fled the US during the Vietnam conflict since it was in illegal war on our part, and even consciounses objectors were drafted, and told to serve the war effort, albeit by cooking, medic, etc. They still had to partake, even in a non-violent fashion, in that war.

Whatever we may like to think of him, bin Laden was a regional patriot, and from their perspective he was fighting the good fight. He simply wanted the Middle East left alone- the USSR out of Afghanistan, the US out of Kuwait, the US out of Iraq, the US out of Afghanistan

Did he ever try asking nicely with a "please with sugar on top" ...that always works on my mom

[Pete]

I do not believe in violence but sometimes violence comes anyway. Violence is not a respecter (IMO) of whether someone is a pacifist or not. I think many people have something that they feel a need to protect. I may not believe in violence but if violence was the only thing that would stop someone killing another or attacking people then I guess that is the way. I have never heard of a terrorist or thug yet who just stopped because someone said they were a pacifist and lets just talk about it over a coffee. I could not watch and be just appauled if my mother or family member was being phyically attacked. I may stop once the need for violence and the presenting attack was over and not like it for a minute the fact that this occured but I would not allow an attacker to rule by force or injure those I love.

It is a conflict of emotions for me but this world is far from perfect and sometimes (IMO) doing what we hate is called upon.

[Zequatanil]

I think self protection, self preservation or fighting to protect one`s family is within all of us as in all animals, that is life--I don`t think that has anything to do with pacifism. One can be a pacifist --yet defend oneself when the need arises. I interpret pacifism being more opposing aggression, violence, war and killing when other options have not been explored. Most wars are of aggression not of defence and are waged for political reasons--and material gains. Life is far short to be killing each other mindlessly-very few animals do that.

blessings,

Suzanne

Edited November 2, 2012 by Quetzal

[Pete]

I think there is pacifism and pacifism. Some will not defend anything, even there own lives or those near to them. Others will defend somethings. I heard form one pacifist who lives near me who wanted to protest at a soldiers. She hated the idea that the escort carried guns and she hated the ceremony because she felt that the soldier had volunteered for the services and therefore it was his own fault he got killed. There was no appreciation for the grieving relatives and friends. For me, this just pointed out that not all violence is about physical contact.

[Zequatanil]

Yes--I agree with you !

I think that as in everything balance is the key--one has to use judgement nothing is black and white, often there are shades of grey.

blessings,

Suzanne

[Fawzo]

Yes--I agree with you !

I think that as in everything balance is the key--one has to use judgement nothing is black and white, often there are shades of grey.

blessings,

Suzanne

Too bad Jesus and Ghandi aren't on the forum to help discuss this.

[Pete]

what? you mean like he cleared the temple or do you mean forgive everyone. Two very different actions said of the same person. Ghandi, now I would say was a pacifist.

[Rev.Frank]

I thought God was suppose to protect us....

Do not fret because of those who are evil

or be envious of those who do wrong;

2

for like the grass they will soon wither,

like green plants they will soon die away.

3

Trust in the Lord and do good;

dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.

4

Take delight in the Lord,

and he will give you the desires of your heart.

5

Commit your way to the Lord;

trust in him and he will do this:

6

He will make your righteous reward shine like the dawn,

your vindication like the noonday sun.

7

Be still before the Lord

and wait patiently for him;

do not fret when people succeed in their ways,

when they carry out their wicked schemes.

8

Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;

do not fret —it leads only to evil.

9

For those who are evil will be destroyed,

but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land.

10

A little while, and the wicked will be no more;

though you look for them, they will not be found.

11

But the meek will inherit the land

and enjoy peace and prosperity.

12

The wicked plot against the righteous

and gnash their teeth at them;

13

but the Lord laughs at the wicked,

for he knows their day is coming.

14

The wicked draw the sword

and bend the bow

to bring down the poor and needy,

to slay those whose ways are upright.

15

But their swords will pierce their own hearts,

and their bows will be broken.

16

Better the little that the righteous have

than the wealth of many wicked;

17

for the power of the wicked will be broken,

but the Lord upholds the righteous.

18

The blameless spend their days under the Lord’s care,

and their inheritance will endure forever.

19

In times of disaster they will not wither;

in days of famine they will enjoy plenty.

20

But the wicked will perish:

Though the Lord’s enemies are like the flowers of the field,

they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.

21

The wicked borrow and do not repay,

but the righteous give generously;

22

those the Lord blesses will inherit the land,

but those he curses will be destroyed.

23

The Lord makes firm the steps

of the one who delights in him;

24

though he may stumble, he will not fall,

for the Lord upholds him with his hand.

25

I was young and now I am old,

yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken

or their children begging bread.

26

They are always generous and lend freely;

their children will be a blessing.

[

b

]

27

Turn from evil and do good;

then you will dwell in the land forever.

28

For the Lord loves the just

and will not forsake his faithful ones.

God protects us spiritually man protects us physically

[Pete]

God protects us spiritually man protects us physically

I totally agree. I think we can see that in the hurricane. I cannot get over the thought of the suffering that has caused. I also think of New Orleans and the great Tsunamis, and those who starve and have war inflicted upon them so much in many countries.

[Fawzo]

I totally agree. I think we can see that in the hurricane. I cannot get over the thought of the suffering that has caused. I also think of New Orleans and the great Tsunamis, and those who starve and have war inflicted upon them so much in many countries.

My question is whether Spirit needs protection whatsoever. Isn't all Spirit directly descended from God? Do portions of God rust and corrupt and die off like leaves on a tree?

[Qryos]

~ Probably depends on the window...

[Rev.Frank]

My question is whether Spirit needs protection whatsoever. Isn't all Spirit directly descended from God? Do portions of God rust and corrupt and die off like leaves on a tree?

You have to feed the spirit, God just doesnt protect you especially if you walk a crooked line you have to try and follow in Gods path and in that way he will protect your spirit, things happen on earth that God has no control over, he does not get involved that is why he gave us free will. Thats why people ask how could God let that happen it really isnt God that lets it happen it is man's free will and God does not interfere with our free will.

[Brother Kaman]

You have to feed the spirit, God just doesnt protect you especially if you walk a crooked line you have to try and follow in Gods path and in that way he will protect your spirit, things happen on earth that God has no control over, he does not get involved that is why he gave us free will. Thats why people ask how could God let that happen it really isnt God that lets it happen it is man's free will and God does not interfere with our free will.

Then when good things happen to you and you survive catastrophes that others do not, you cannot say that God blessed you. After all, God doesn't interfere with us, does he?

Edited November 4, 2012 by Brother Kaman