Should We Be Allowed To Intentionally Harm Ourselves?

[mererdog]

~ Just had a thought about the original topic, sorry to interrupt...

If humans weren't allowed to intentionally harm themselves with poor choices, how would they learn & mature?

Poor love choice {heart-ache! Do better next time} drinking too much {hang-over! Do better next time}

bankruptcy {you're screwed! Do better next time} car accident {you're owied! Do better next time!}

... Well, could go on & on & on, humans are creative critters & often need to repeat lessons,

but if they weren't allowed to harm themselves...

Yep. It's why something that a person shouldn't do isn't automatically something they should be prevented from doing.

[Phillipe]

Poor love choice {heart-ache! Do better next time} drinking too much {hang-over! Do better next time}

bankruptcy {you're screwed! Do better next time} car accident {you're owied! Do better next time!}

That sounds like "The Game of Life - Salvador Dali Special Edition"

[JimBob]

I answered "No, under no circumstances ... " to both sets of questions.

And you will never know how hard it was to come to that decision.

On the one hand I believe in free will and freedom of choice - regardless! I believe we have the 'right' to do anything we wish as long as it harms on others nor causes harm to no others' property. (But, this includes one's Self.)

But, on the other hand, I believe that our body, mind, soul, and spirit are sacred. They are, in a manner of speaking, things that have been created by the creator for a purpose which we will probably never understand. To intentionally destroy or harm any creation of the creator is a negative act and these negative acts flow throughout, not only to those who are in direct contact with us but also throughout the entire universe.

Our body, mind, soul & spirit are sacred. We should take every effort to insure their well-being.

Peace & Love!

[JimBob]

But, to the question "Who has the right to prevent us from harming ourself?" I suggest that no one, and especially not government, has that right.

I think that the driving force of not harming one's Self is rooted in whether or not one is at peace and content with one's Self.

Peace & Love!

[JimBob]

An interesting quote I would like to share with y'all.

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." - John Stuart Mill

[AT8FATES]

I think that a persons definition of "harm" might vary also.

Maybe a person bringing himself closer to death is only that persons way of accelerating the inevitable process, not considering it "harm", but merely "helping out"... conserving energy and all?

And maybe a persons tattoos are enhancing the beauty of the human body? No harm there, just appreciation for the "canvas".

peace.

[JimBob]

Hi AT8FATES,

Fair statement. I, however, must follow my Taoist philosophy that teaches that we should not attempt to hasten death nor should we attempt to resist it when it comes for us.

The key to Taoist philosophy is to live happily. I, personally, am not happy when I am in mental, physical, or spiritual pain.

Peace & Love!

[revmyron]

i feel that its are right to do what ever we choose

[JimBob]

i feel that its are right to do what ever we choose

Hey! Who am I, who is the government, who is anyone else, to tell anyone what they can or cannot do with their own body?

We all, each and every one of us, has the right, in my opinion, to do whatever they wish with their own body as long as it harms no other.

That last phrase, 'as long as it harms on other', is a tricky one, in my opinion. Anything we do will effect others in some form. If I kill myself will it cause my mother unhappiness for the rest of her life? If a woman has an abortion before she has even told her husband that she is pregnant and without discussing it with him and he later finds out, what then?

Every action, I believe, will effect others somewhere, at some point in time. No, I am not talking about the Buddhist concept of Karma, I am talking about 'cause and effect'.

Just some thoughts.

Peace & Love!

[Fawzo]

Should We Be Allowed To Intentionally Harm Ourselves?

Maybe this question can be answered by looking at its antithesis.

Should we be allowed to intentionally pleasure ourselves? I think what you answer for one of these questions you have to answer for both!

[JimBob]

Should we be allowed to intentionally pleasure ourselves? I think what you answer for one of these questions you have to answer for both!

I disagree with you, my friend. You are trying to compare lemons and bananas.

But then, who am I to say? Do your own thing.

Peace & Love!

[Phillipe]

But Brother JimBob -

...pleasure, pain - both the same. Both necessary, right?

[JimBob]

But Brother JimBob -

...pleasure, pain - both the same. Both necessary, right?

No, no, no, no, no. Not the same. Think singularity! (I know, it's difficult.)

I don't need pain in order to experience plaesure. That is dualistic thinking. Just like I don't need war in order to experience peace.

I don't need something ugly in order to contrast it against something beautiful in order to see something beautiful.

It is my belief that we should allow our mind (not just our brain) to go beyond dualistic thinking so that we can fully experience the beauty of life.

Then we can concentrate on the positive and leave the negative behind. (Actually, the negative does not exist. We only pretend it does.)

Peace & Love!

[Reverend Tess McNamara]

I believe that under NO circumstances should any person be able to deliberately harm themselves, when in their full faculties and not under duress or influence of chemical in the brain issue such as mental illness.

I believe that we as a society need to protect children and vulnerable adults if they cannot protect themselves, with proper medical care. I believe that when a woman is pregnant she carried within her a human life not a clump of cells. I do think each person will have to answer to God for their own actions in this life.

Murder is still murder, whether or not a baby is considered by law a clump of cells.

In cases of incest or rape, or direct medical danger to the mothers life- then a woman I believe is able to decide what is best for herself.

I am a Feminist and believe that every woman must have access to a legal abortion and not suffer as our parents or grandparents etc generation did, possibly dying at the hands of back yard abortionists.

I do believe we each must accept complete responsibility for our lives.

I do not agree with murder of unborn babies, our civilisation must not go the way of cannanites whom once killed their children, and was condemned in Bible for doing so.

I condemn suicide murderers, whom are victims of an ideology of glorification of death and severe and dangerously brainwashed fools whom once dead realise all too late that there aint no 72 virgins in paradise- its a myth designed to stop soldiers afraid to die and is misused now to create slaughter of innocent people. I believe those suicide murderers will go to hell immediately. Any such ideology of racism, hate and violence should be banned forever from the earth. Murder is still murder no matter what cult chooses to enact brainwashing to make it look heroics. No such thing as a martyr, only a sucker who is brainwashed loser who chooses to commit gutless suicide and murder others- they will go to hell i am sure of it.

Every life is precious. Every single baby is a life from moment of conception regardless of what anyone else thinks, I have a right to believe what I believe.

I think we all must decide ourselves where we stand. I would never ever place my own beliefs ahead of that of a person needing counselling and support, my love and support to humanity is unconditional in this instance, all human beings are God's own children and we have a duty to be there and support everyone in need, no matter what our own personal beliefs may be.

We as Ministers are in a unique situation. I do not ever condemn anyone for their choices.

It is not my right to deprive anyone of the right to choose whatever their choice may be. It is however my duty to be unbiased and give support uncoditionally to all Gods children in Ministry.

Pax

Reverend Tess

[boteomm]

I believe that under NO circumstances should any person be able to deliberately harm themselves, when in their full faculties and not under duress or influence of chemical in the brain issue such as mental illness.

I believe that we as a society need to protect children and vulnerable adults if they cannot protect themselves, with proper medical care. I believe that when a woman is pregnant she carried within her a human life not a clump of cells. I do think each person will have to answer to God for their own actions in this life.

Murder is still murder, whether or not a baby is considered by law a clump of cells.

In cases of incest or rape, or direct medical danger to the mothers life- then a woman I believe is able to decide what is best for herself.

I am a Feminist and believe that every woman must have access to a legal abortion and not suffer as our parents or grandparents etc generation did, possibly dying at the hands of back yard abortionists.

I do believe we each must accept complete responsibility for our lives.

I have to say, I nearly entirely agree with you here, if I understand correctly. I believe abortion is murder but do'nt want to see abortion made illegal. People will still have abortions, they just wo'nt be able to get one safely, thus often killing both the child AND the mother.

I do not agree with murder of unborn babies, our civilisation must not go the way of cannanites whom once killed their children, and was condemned in Bible for doing so.

meh.

I condemn suicide murderers, whom are victims of an ideology of glorification of death and severe and dangerously brainwashed fools whom once dead realise all too late that there aint no 72 virgins in paradise- its a myth designed to stop soldiers afraid to die and is misused now to create slaughter of innocent people. I believe those suicide murderers will go to hell immediately. Any such ideology of racism, hate and violence should be banned forever from the earth. Murder is still murder no matter what cult chooses to enact brainwashing to make it look heroics. No such thing as a martyr, only a sucker who is brainwashed loser who chooses to commit gutless suicide and murder others- they will go to hell i am sure of it.

Every life is precious. Every single baby is a life from moment of conception regardless of what anyone else thinks, I have a right to believe what I believe.

I think we all must decide ourselves where we stand. I would never ever place my own beliefs ahead of that of a person needing counselling and support, my love and support to humanity is unconditional in this instance, all human beings are God's own children and we have a duty to be there and support everyone in need, no matter what our own personal beliefs may be.

We as Ministers are in a unique situation. I do not ever condemn anyone for their choices.

It is not my right to deprive anyone of the right to choose whatever their choice may be. It is however my duty to be unbiased and give support uncoditionally to all Gods children in Ministry.

Pax

Reverend Tess

Just nitpicking here, but in one paragraph you condemn suicide victims and murderers, but in the very next you say you do'nt condemn anyone. Care to clarify?

[Qryos]

~ I understand the stance against abortion.

I understand the part about suicide murderers.

But Tess, you didn't address addiction, self-mutilation, or personal suicide.

There are people that desire to harm themselves {not others} in a variety of ways.

If someone has just months or weeks left to exist in excrutiating pain, must they spend that time screaming?

Or can they exit this life early with afore-thought?

Just wondering...

[Thumper]

Anyone will do anything they want to themselves, laws be damned. Should they? Why not, it is their body to destroy or exhault. As mine is for me...

[Kamina]

It may seem a little odd to quote Nietzsche here, but I believe it is appropriate.

A state, is called the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly lieth it also; and this lie creepeth from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people."

It is a lie! Creators were they who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

Destroyers, are they who lay snares for many, and call it the state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them.

Where there is still a people, there the state is not understood, but hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs.

This sign I give unto you: every people speaketh its language of good and evil: this its neighbor understandeth not. Its language hath it devised for itself in laws and customs.

That may seem a little extreme to you, but it is what I believe is one layer of truth about government. The desire to hang a government over the people is an act of destruction and the setting of a snare; another truth is that destruction in moderate amounts benefits creation. I agree with what Reverend Zeus said, except for his views on abortion.

Abortion is a difficult topic to come to conclusions about. It is my view that the destruction of a fetus is roughly equivalent to the destruction of skin cells. Thanks to Stem Cell Research it is possible to take skin cells, regress them into embryonic stem cells. In the near future, it will be possible to use these cells to form a completely new human being. When that becomes possible, will it be murder for a person to scratch?

[Fawzo]

Suppose stem cell research makes it so that people with money can live to be 150. The world is already over populated what kind of effect will it have upon the poor.

Will it in effect be a slow death sentence for poorer nations if we extend life expectancy even farther?

[lifeslittleuturns]

Whether it is allowed or not people will always find a way to intentionally hurt themselves.

Many people will also hurt themselves unintentionally while they are pretending to hurt themselves intentionally. I have seen all too many cases where teenage girls try to manipulate someone else for attention or a cry for help and they overdose on Tylenol thinking that it can't hurt you, only to find out later that they have seriously damaged vital organs (I forget whether it was the liver or kidneys) and they will never be the same again.

I know that many activities are significant warning signs. For example, cutting, self-mutilation, etc. And everything should be done to get them the professional help that they need.

If we are talking about euthanasia then I believe that there should be a legal option available for it. Licensing it, make it controlled and voluntary. We have always considered it acceptable to put down an animal to relieve its pain and suffering. Is it any less humane to allow it as an option humans? I think that there should be a combination of two oral pills that can be ingested that would give them about a half an hour to spend saying goodbye to their families.

Some people could argue that smoking or obesity or alcohol abuse or drug abuse or any of a number of other activities are intentionally harmful activities. Should we ban or regulate them? That is debatable. I feel there is all too much government in the world already. So much waste and inefficiency. There has to be a better way. Wake up and smell the humanity.