Upset about the statue

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you all my sisters and brothers,

 

Personally, I think the Santa Hat on Buddha is pretty funny.  But hey, I can be a bit odd somedays.  

 

I do think this points to the fact that we all have different ideas of what is funny and appropriate.  Some years ago, I worked at the corporate headquarters at a VERY large brewery here in Milwaukee.  One Christmas season, it was decided to decorate the tree in the main lobby of the corporate offices with tap handles emblazoned with the logos of our various beers rather than traditional ornaments.  I thought it looked pretty cool, but a few of the VP's of the company took offense (they had not been on on the meeting of the Facilities staff when we discussed the decorations of the year)., and that tree came down and was redecorated with traditional ornaments two days later.  Their rationale was that the non  -traditional ornaments would offend Christians who worked there.  I still think it was silly, but what can one do.  We live in a world were people offend easy.

 

In Solidarity,

Reverend Calli 

 

 

I don't think "funny" is the word for your beer tap tree.  I would say "creative" or "different".  You should have been congratulated for making it interesting.  It might even have made good advertising material.

 

You tried.  It's a shame your corporate bosses were so lacking in imagination.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 4:25 PM, mererdog said:

I hear that. But having a civil society requires that we all make a hundred small sacrifices each day. Whether that means refraining from putting a hat on a statue, or refraining from complaining about someone putting a hat on a statue, or even refraining from complaining about someone complaining about a hat on a statue.

The happiness of others effects our happiness. Having been in both situations, I can say with confidence that having a friend for a neighbor is better than having an enemy for a neighbor. No contest. Of course, it is only worth so much, and I would leave it to you to decide what you are willing to sacrifice for it.

we all have a responsibility to peacefully determine what is right and wrong and adhere to that decision, at least until and if we are shown a better way.  to change our beliefs and principles for others is to abdicate our own decisions in place of theirs, or to martyr our belief in what's right as lesser than theirs.

[Key]

15 hours ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you all my sisters and brothers,

 

Personally, I think the Santa Hat on Buddha is pretty funny.  But hey, I can be a bit odd somedays.  

 

I do think this points to the fact that we all have different ideas of what is funny and appropriate.  Some years ago, I worked at the corporate headquarters at a VERY large brewery here in Milwaukee.  One Christmas season, it was decided to decorate the tree in the main lobby of the corporate offices with tap handles emblazoned with the logos of our various beers rather than traditional ornaments.  I thought it looked pretty cool, but a few of the VP's of the company took offense (they had not been on on the meeting of the Facilities staff when we discussed the decorations of the year)., and that tree came down and was redecorated with traditional ornaments two days later.  Their rationale was that the non  -traditional ornaments would offend Christians who worked there.  I still think it was silly, but what can one do.  We live in a world were people offend easy.

 

In Solidarity,

Reverend Calli 

I rather like that tree idea. Wish I could have seen it. It had a nice tie in as tribute to the area.

Funny, though, those executives had no concern for offending those of other faiths by having a Christmas display at work, in the first place.

I use to work for a court house for a time, and there was so much concern to be so PC that no displays of any religious holidays for any religion were allowed during those times. We were also instructed to be only allowed to say "Happy Holidays" to maintain a sense of neutrality with our patrons.

[VonNoble]

4 hours ago, cuchulain said:

we all have a responsibility to peacefully determine what is right and wrong and adhere to that decision, at least until and if we are shown a better way.  to change our beliefs and principles for others is to abdicate our own decisions in place of theirs, or to martyr our belief in what's right as lesser than theirs.

 

This is a point - deserving attention.

 

If someone living across the street avidly believed in fengshui as a spiritual path it is likely unless I know them well - I would not know this.

If I decide to paint my house in some non-harmonizing color to the scheme of life as they understand it to be - knocking their balance all to heck (however inadvertently)....when they come knocking at the door asking me to change the color....how does that play out?

 

I was under no obligation to check with them.

What i am doing is legal and also in code to the subdivision.

They might be more than offended and annoyed - it might be psychologically harmful to them and causing them a great deal of stress.

 

If I had the money  - would repainting the house be the right thing to do?   My path has no assigning of value to colors.  Do I defer to them and oblige their beliefs?

 

If they offered to pay half?

 

If they offered to completely pay to have it redone as it is that offensive to them...do I let them pick a color that works for them?

 

All interesting things upon which to ruminate. 

 

von 

[mererdog]

5 hours ago, cuchulain said:

to change our beliefs and principles for others is to abdicate our own decisions in place of theirs, or to martyr our belief in what's right as lesser than theirs.

Sure. But not everything is a matter of beliefs and principles. Some things are just about tastes and whims. Von did not seem to have decorated based on beliefs and principles, for example. If that is the case, moving things around, or even removing things, would not seem to be any real sacrifice, and could potentially lead to a more harmonious neighborhood.

He is not obliged to do it, of course, but when there is a potential gain with no real cost, it is at least worth considering. Sometimes I eat pasta, even though I want falafel, because if my wife never gets to choose the restaurant, my wife will stop being my wife. You know what I mean?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

This is past crazy.  A somewhere-in-the-area resident passes by and says that she is offended.  No detail to go on.  None at all.   If she has anything more to say, let her say it.  I think we're done.  I am.  

[cuchulain]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 4:28 PM, mererdog said:

Sure. But not everything is a matter of beliefs and principles. Some things are just about tastes and whims. Von did not seem to have decorated based on beliefs and principles, for example. If that is the case, moving things around, or even removing things, would not seem to be any real sacrifice, and could potentially lead to a more harmonious neighborhood.

He is not obliged to do it, of course, but when there is a potential gain with no real cost, it is at least worth considering. Sometimes I eat pasta, even though I want falafel, because if my wife never gets to choose the restaurant, my wife will stop being my wife. You know what I mean?

i dig. a minor issue for one person could be major for another, and removal would merely be polite.

on the issue of fengshui, what if you bought the property across with your life savings and built, interrupting the positive flow? what if its not feasible to move?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, cuchulain said:

i dig. a minor issue for one person could be major for another, and removal would merely be polite.

on the issue of fengshui, what if you bought the property across with your life savings and built, interrupting the positive flow? what if its not feasible to move?

 

Removal of what?  We still don't know what this passer-by took offense at.  What should be changed on pure speculation?  

 

Before I wander off, one final comment.  Somehow, I doubt if this woman is concerned that she might have offended Von.  

[Songster]

If I were Buddhist...

I might take offense at an image of the Buddha being used as a hat-rack...

And I'd probably be pretty vocal about it.

I guess "funny" is in the eye of the beholder....

[nicholson massie]

Hello everyone,  Please excuse the nonsequitorial interruption. This is my first time engaging in discussion with my fellow  Ulc ministers. If I may, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Cole Massie; I'm an actor, minister, and friend. Ordained on April 10, 2017 by Kevin Andrews, I come here today seeking intelligent and peaceful discussions on any topic you wish. My background is Unitarian Universalism. Are there any ministers or members here who are also Unitarian  Universalist? Of course, whether you are Unitarian  Universalist or not, I am open to hearing all your opinions.

 

If you have any questions, please let me know. I'm happy to answer any questions you have.

 

 Let me be clear; I am not in any way a Unitarian Universalist minister. I apologize for any spelling or grammatical errors.

 

I wish you all the best,

your fellow minister,

Cole

 

 

 pS,

My only ordination comes from ULC.

[VonNoble]

1 hour ago, nicholson massie said:

Hello everyone,  Please excuse the nonsequitorial interruption. This is my first time engaging in discussion with my fellow  Ulc ministers. If I may, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Cole Massie; I'm an actor, minister, and friend. Ordained on April 10, 2017 by Kevin Andrews, I come here today seeking intelligent and peaceful discussions on any topic you wish. My background is Unitarian Universalism. Are there any ministers or members here who are also Unitarian  Universalist? Of course, whether you are Unitarian  Universalist or not, I am open to hearing all your opinions.

 

If you have any questions, please let me know. I'm happy to answer any questions you have.

 

 Let me be clear; I am not in any way a Unitarian Universalist minister. I apologize for any spelling or grammatical errors.

 

I wish you all the best,

your fellow minister,

Cole

 

 

 pS,

My only ordination comes from ULC.

Welcome!    We are happy you joined us!

von

[mererdog]

10 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Removal of what?  We still don't know what this passer-by took offense at.  What should be changed on pure speculation?  

According to Von's account, "She was passing by and told me putting out a Buddha like that was offensive.... especially at Christmas time."

So we know what caused the offense is the statue being out the way it was. Removing the statue from where the neighbor can see it would seem an effective way to prevent that offense, if preventing offense is the goal.

[mererdog]

14 hours ago, cuchulain said:

what if its not feasible to move?

Be ready for more complaints, and for the possibility that someone will escalate.

Edited December 4, 2017 by mererdog

[cuchulain]

2 hours ago, mererdog said:

Be ready for more complaints, and for the possibility that someone will escalate.

maybe the point is THEY should also make the attempt to be understanding.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

51 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

maybe the point is THEY should also make the attempt to be understanding.

 

I expect you have been following the various Ten Commandments Monument controversies.  Or the public prayers at public football games.  Or the invocations at various civic functions.  Or the Nativity displays in front of Public Libraries and City Halls.  Etc.

 

Out of "respect" for the dominant  Christian culture -- the rest of us are expected to bend over and take it.  And be respectful.  Even grateful.

 

I am not as concerned for Christian sensitivities, as my highest ideals might suggest.  It seems that I'm still working through my own issues.  Such is the consequence, of growing up in a culture dominated by Christians.  

 

 

[mererdog]

2 hours ago, cuchulain said:

maybe the point is THEY should also make the attempt to be understanding.

I live with the reality that exists, not the reality that should exist. My neighbor should have the common courtesy to clean up after his dog, but that doesn't mean I dont have to watch where I step... Assuming that I want clean shoes more than I want an excuse to be angry at my neighbor...

[cuchulain]

21 hours ago, mererdog said:

I live with the reality that exists, not the reality that should exist. My neighbor should have the common courtesy to clean up after his dog, but that doesn't mean I dont have to watch where I step... Assuming that I want clean shoes more than I want an excuse to be angry at my neighbor...

then on a subject i consider minor and they dont, with the understanding they dont care if they offend me, i conclude they should be adult enough to let something that causes no harm go and i wouldnt be at fault for their failure.

[mererdog]

 

1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

then on a subject i consider minor and they dont, with the understanding they dont care if they offend me, i conclude they should be adult enough to let something that causes no harm go and i wouldnt be at fault for their failure.

 Once someone complains about your actions, you have been warned that those actions produce a negative reaction from that person. At that point, if you choose to continue those actions, you are choosing to provoke a negative reaction. As such, any harm that arises due to the negative reaction you provoke is an avoidable consequence of your decision. So the key question to ask is "Are the potential rewards of this course of action worth the potential costs?"

Edited December 5, 2017 by mererdog

[Brother Kaman]

49 minutes ago, mererdog said:

 

 Once someone complains about your actions, you have been warned that those actions produce a negative reaction from that person. At that point, if you choose to continue those actions, you are choosing to provoke a negative reaction. As such, any harm that arises due to the negative reaction you provoke is an avoidable consequence of your decision. So the key question to ask is "Are the potential rewards of this course of action worth the potential costs?"

If we only did things which would not offend, we would become paralyzed by inaction and nothing would be done.

[mererdog]

36 minutes ago, Brother Kaman said:

If we only did things which would not offend, we would become paralyzed by inaction and nothing would be done.

Of course. And if we never avoid doing things that will offend?