Pastor Dave

Christian Brings Dead to Life

43 posts in this topic

Interesting to me, how these first hand accounts always, or at least almost always, have some aspect that doesn't quite mesh.  I have worked in hospitals, and never heard over the intercom "someone has arrived with a deadly heart attack" as the doctor claims.  I have never heard of a patient being defibrilated more than 8 or 9 times at the most, though that is possible in extreme circumstances, I suppose.  Also, maybe you should look up Jeff Markin, and then look up the Dr. Crandall scam...There is a nice picture of Jeff Markin, but they name him Dr. Crandall, who is at the 4th annual World Christian doctors network conference in Florida.

Edited by cuchulain
clarification

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this proves what?that you believe in angels?that's fine for you.

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Firstly, Pastor Dave...I hope you don't think I was simply out to disprove or quash your faith or anything. It seems as though you are responding with a"well how's this for proof then" kind of comment, so I just want to clarify that I watched the first video presented with an open mind and simply typed in some names from the video, and recognized them in the searches.  Not trying to stir up hard feelings. :)

As for the second video, it's not proof of anything.  I can certainly appreciate the circumstances for the officer in question, but the fact that he was in the dumps, as he puts it, leaves him open to susceptibility.  Beyond that, I would certainly not accept a single person's word for the fact that there is only one possible explanation and it must be God.  Perhaps, perhaps not.  Maybe there was an adult in the area that cried for help then fled the scene.  That happens frequently.  There is one possible explanation, and it didn't take very long to think up.  When officers, or other people, approach the scene of an accident as such, I doubt seriously that they were looking around the scene when they could hear a baby crying in the car.  They were most likely focused 110% on saving a child, and an adult whom they say they heard.(I say they, but since no other names were put forth, there is no way to verify other accounts which become hear say).  It certainly does not seem far fetched to me that there could have been a person around yelling for help that left the scene, certainly seems more plausible than an angel told them.  Just my opinion of course.  Someone else is certainly allowed to think what they want, whether it be angels or anything else.  

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Actually cuchulain,  I often see others on these forums saying things like, "why don't we ever hear about these miracles your God is supposed to perform". When that first video crossed my facebook I just thought I'd post it here so that anyone who was interested could hear about it. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. When the second video shows up a few days later I thought it would go well in this topic. It's a shame I can't change the title of the thread (maybe YHVH's modern miracles) but it's not that big of a deal to me. Basically this is just me saying the reports are out there if a person is willing to pay attention when they surface. Certainly these types of stories aren't what the mainstream media focuses on. None the less stories like these are out there, some never going beyond the people directly involved.

Mark 45, as I said to cuchulain, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Nor am I trying to prove anything other than these kinds of things are out there for those willing to receive them. If you don't believe in angels that's fine for you.

Edited by Pastor Dave

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I often contemplate if we misdiagnose death. There's an interesting book called "Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife by Eben Alexander III M.D." where this guy is a hardcore athiest AND neurologist (so he knows how the brain works and denied NDE's as brain function). There are just TOO MANY near death experiences on record and cases of misdiagnosed death (or come backs from death) with experiences of self-awareness after being diagnosed dead. Oddly enough, a jury of 12 can convict someone to the electric chair but hundreds of thousands of people claiming that they were self aware near or after death is shrugged off. We are such cognitively selective beings lmao. Its a bit scary that SO many people claiming this doesn't open the book on the subject of severe medical concern! 

Apparently, there is a point of no return (or improbability of return.) But prior to that point, I wonder if what medicine calls death is really misunderstood or premature. Hundreds of years ago there was definitely many misunderstandings of death as it wasn't so uncommon in early medicine for people to be buried alive- eek. Oops?

What's the point the feeling of selfness ends? When does the self awareness end? When does the TRUE ability to reanimate end?

Breathing has stopped and people come back. Hearts have stopped and people come back. Brains have stopped and people come back. Breathing, brains and hearts have stopped together- and people come back! People have reported feeling operations whilst simultaneously having an out of body experience (floating above their body watching their body defribbed, FEELING electrocution, describing actual conversations and more...eek) Few have reanimated claiming nothing happened. Of the rare instance, many that don't have memory have dug up memory in therapy, the memory of after death being suppressed as a trauma.

I realize medicine is a privilege and an intervention. If nature took its course in all cases, MANY people wouldn't reanimate. Right now we're still rude animals using electricity like Frankenstein to reanimate corpses. Lmao! I hope Medicine learns more though- especially because if many people are experiencing their body or self awareness after death, it might be cause to wait some days before performing autopsies and organ donations.

Side note: I saw a youtube video of a man who has memories from an organ donor's life. There's just more to this issue- not just Spiritually but Scientifically.

Edited by SisterSalome

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I certainly agree there is more to the issue scientifically.  I don't know about the spiritual aspects, and that seems to remain my stance.  There are unexplained things that happen, it just seems to me that too often people rush to the conclusion that it must be God simply because they lack the ability to understand at present.  My mother is a somewhat spiritual person, though not exactly Christian, and she was the resident expert on hospice care at the V.A. hospital for years until they terminated that program.  She wrote pamphlets, did lots of research independently, and she certainly believed there was something after life.  So far as actual evidence, there is nothing beyond anecdotal that she could ever offer.  Coming from someone with her particular background in research and study, I tend to believe there probably isn't any accredited evidence, beyond anecdotal.  

I certainly don't say this to debunk the idea that there might be something after life, or that weird things happen like this.  I simply say that I have never seen evidence of such, and so do not believe myself at this time.  In science, I don't know is a perfectly reasonable statement.  It should be in everyday life as well.

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I don't personally believe in modern day miracles.. The doctor ordered the defibrillator be used again, and that seems to be what revived the patient. And no one saw an angel, one guy heard someone call for help. Questionable? That's not to say that I don't believe God has done and can do  miracles, I've just never seen one. I personally believe miracles were used to introduce the gospel, but ended at the end of the apostolic age because it served its purpose in establishing the new covenant. The next period of miraculous wonders won't come until the days of tribulation, but they won't be anything of God, except that of the 2 witnesses.  jmo

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That actually strikes me as the most reasonable opinion to be held by a Christian, Dan.  I have often wondered how others mesh the end of the apostolic age with modern day miracles, I mean...if God is going to quit speaking to us and revealing himself to us, then he isn't going to show off either.  

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I've been seeing the trailer for a movie coming out mid March called Miracles From Heaven.

It appears to be based on the true story of a little girl who was miraculously healed of an incurable disease after surviving a fall of 30ft without  sustaining any major injuries.

Trailer here for Miracles From Heaven.

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I recently watched "The Perfect Storm", also based on a true story.  What I had to wonder at the end was, how did they have any clue whatsoever as to how the crew of a lost ship behaved towards each other?  The few transmissions they received throughout the storm, allegedly, were so broken up they couldn't even identify the ship.  All hands were lost.  Nobody survived to tell the tale.  Then I realized the caveat, based.  This could easily mean the names were the same but the story was made up.  This is something that a lot of people in the movie industry take full advantage of, I think, to tell whatever story they want to tell without any actual facts to back up their claims.  I guess, another case of someone said so, in the end?

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These outlandish fraud stories might give believers a warm fuzzy glow.  They don't do anything for me.  

 

:whist:

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Well as I said, fraud stories are a form of false testimony.  I mean, the church considers testifying telling your story, and even that makes these stories false testimony(mostly).  I liked the movie "The Perfect Storm", but still take it with a grain of salt, you know?  I offered the opinion on another site that I dislike Christian movies like "God's not Dead" because they portray things in such a slanted light, and another atheist responded that they liked movies like "Bruce Almighty" and named a few more that I hadn't considered.  I wonder, does Christian fiction violate the commandment against false testimony?  I mean, obviously the movies add that disclaimer that the events portrayed aren't real, etc...but is it still testimony by the Christian definition?

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37 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

Well as I said, fraud stories are a form of false testimony.  I mean, the church considers testifying telling your story, and even that makes these stories false testimony(mostly).  I liked the movie "The Perfect Storm", but still take it with a grain of salt, you know?  I offered the opinion on another site that I dislike Christian movies like "God's not Dead" because they portray things in such a slanted light, and another atheist responded that they liked movies like "Bruce Almighty" and named a few more that I hadn't considered.  I wonder, does Christian fiction violate the commandment against false testimony?  I mean, obviously the movies add that disclaimer that the events portrayed aren't real, etc...but is it still testimony by the Christian definition?

 

The fraud and the fiction begin with the Bible.  All the current fiction and fraud are only continuing what the Bible started.

Consider one of the most obvious examples from the Gospels.  At the time of the crucifixion, the tombs opened and the dead walked among the living.  This was seen by many.  We are expected to take this as history.  A day in the history of Jerusalem.

If we are expected to take this obvious crap seriously on any level -- then surely the latest round of crap is no worse.  It is the Biblical tradition.

 

:whist:

:sigh2:

:whist:

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I guess crap is crap, no matter from who it emerges.  I should insert here that it is merely my opinion that the bible is crap, so as not to offend those who are too politically correct.  I am equally sure that my opinion is crap to them.

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4 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I guess crap is crap, no matter from who it emerges.  I should insert here that it is merely my opinion that the bible is crap, so as not to offend those who are too politically correct.  I am equally sure that my opinion is crap to them.

It would be the tactful thing to do.  The usual IMO disclaimer.  I'm in a bad mood.  I'll pass.     :whist:

I would like to add that earlier today, in the subway, there was a woman screaming about how we all needed Jesus.  I'm in a really bad mood.

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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On 2/28/2016 at 8:38 AM, Pastor Dave said:

Ok how about this one

Proof of angels.

I'll put this as gently as I can, but Fox News hasn't been a source of good journalism for over ten years.

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19 hours ago, scottedward said:

I'll put this as gently as I can, but Fox News hasn't been a source of good journalism for over ten years.

I liked O'Reilly back when I was 19, but I have watched way too many youtube videos of him bashing those with another viewpoint without logical reason.  

To point, I don't think any reputable news source has ever published anything proving angels.  They might publish opinion or puff pieces, but never actual hard facts proving angels exist.  If they did, that would be Pulitzer stuff for sure, might even reach Nobel levels.

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I will first start off by saying I watched that somewhat lengthy video, and wrote names and information down to check.  The names check out for the most part, although I could find absolutely NOTHING posted by Shawn with the exception of an ad for a physical therapy place after his accident.  The people seem to be connected, and actually know each other and exist.  That's a plus.  The accident really happened.  

So far as the miracle, I do not believe any miracle occurred from watching this video.  The only people who ever said he was brain dead were bystanders with no medical knowledge other than the doctors telling them they didn't think he would make it.  I can understand how it might SEEM miraculous.  Especially to people who are already deeply religious, such as the people in the video were.  But that is just my opinion.  I did not see actual evidence, only an anecdotal story.  Still, at least this one wasn't blatantly false testimony.  At least, it seems the people involved really seem to believe it.

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