VonNoble

This seems to flow as probable to me. Thx for the posting. Von

Thanks for the posting. I understand what you are saying - there is some degree of validity there. However, still, the written word historically (and currently) is the source of some of that confusion. When they don't agree - everyone points fingers. All holding the book ...and pointing fingers. So the book (the written version) - doesn't seem to reduce confusion, maybe? Von

thx... I needed that.... von

You have a good point. I guess I am influenced from a cultural anthropology class I took years ago. It was a pretty convincing argument for the validity of oral traditions. Researchers showed (with supporting scientifically dated artifacts) that much of the cultural and spiritual traditions of Australia's aborigines has remained unchanged (or little changed) over a couple thousand years at least. We saw a rather long documentary (ran two classes long) (and it was fascinating)...therein were lots of supporting materials. It was a long time ago but my take away of it all being fairly well substantiated has stuck with me (even if all the details I got tested on were long forgotten.) I miss my very sharp memory - it served me well for a long time. von

Considering for more than two centuries the followers of every holy text ....cannot agree 1) on the origins even with it in writing 2) the meaning of the context 3) the rituals and reverence required 4) which parts are literal and which are not .... it seems like the written version is under attack from within ... and continuously births new versions of itself... morphs and progresses .....till any connection is fairly unrecognizable from the original, maybe... As opposed in some cases to tribal traditions which have remained unchanged for eons.... Thx for the exchange of ideas von

Do you attribute that change to anything in particular? von

You may be right... returning to school has taught me daily I am from a different time and place. Yet, I think the drug epidemic points to a largely discontented bunch of citizens. My Buddhist friends ( much younger than I am) point to guilt and low self esteem. my friends were more inclined to drink firvan escape and I most often heard guilt as a major player (again from the senior citizen crowd).... NOW I just leave and don't listen. ....thx for your input and welcome to the FORUM. von

Thank you. When speaking with the couple of Buddhist friends I have (neither from the United States) they note that for whatever reasons, Americans have guilt issues much if the time. To to make matters worse it invades their centering because the quit time quickly becomes self recrimination. That made me curious if you had familiarity with that phenomenon. Since you indicate you no longer do, congratulations are in order there as it was explained to be that is a leap forward. i am stumbling forward and find it helps to know others sort of advance when they stay with it intellectualky i I know this is so...but emotionally some days it is less clear thx again von

i Thad to look up what "Trolling" means -perhaps U R correct von

Yes thx

Culturally, do we insulate our children too much? Are parents defining the parents success in life - in terms of the kids? Are parents using the kids to validate that they have been successful in life - thereby defining their worth as humans in terms of how the kids turn out? von

I think it fits the topic nicely. Your awareness and evolution of thought is about self discovery. Several years ago I read somewhere (possibly on this Forum) that as we mature as human beings - our understanding of "god/God" changes right along with us. You just seemed to get there faster (in chronologic years) than many of us - good for you. In that growth process, we might for example be comforted by the all benevolent and forgiving father. Later we are less dependent on the concept of God/god. Eventually we grow up (if we work at it) and we realize that WE are responsible for happy in our lives. TOO....at that point - we also see the other side of things and take responsibility fully for our actions. Each choice has a consequence and causes, in some way - whatever happens next. Is that about right or how you see it too? von

Well said. And I agree. At least i can intellectually "get" that. Do you think we have difficulty seeing it is "us" most of the time? Lots of folks are really quick to point fingers elsewhere instead of inward, maybe? von

Perhaps "control" was not quite accurate. All of us assess our progress (usually at the end of the day) and often focus on the on thing we got wrong rather than the 100 we got right. In trying to keep emotions and assessments balanced (and celebrate your worth not just what you need to course correct) do you have method to redirect your thoughts. In visiting with others I often hear what I presume is either frustration (not too patient with the process for many) or else guilt. So often it seems people feel guilty so much of the time (or that is what I hear) - do you find that as well? von

After joining a free local Apple support group (at least I seek help when I need it) ...and following several postings about the Apple 8 - I think I am going to wait till after the first of the year to purchase one. It seems there are a few bugs to work out (for sure on the X but I had decided against one of those - I just don't use it enough to justify it. But even the 8 seems to have maybe been rushed out to market. von

It took me way longer than it took you to catch on... so I am officially impressed After I really sat back and considered not just what you said but the impact upon a life to realize that ( esp at a young age)....I really appreciate your sharing it... it comes bringing hope with it von

By the way others react to me. von

Had to chuckle at that second sentence. I have been married for 45 years so I know whereof you speak. However, maybe it is OUR REACTION to what is said that causes the emotion to fly up. You would walk into my local Starbucks and on a normal day....I can say....."Hey let me buy you a cup of coffee" No issue there. We enjoy our chat and coffee. The next day....for whatever reason you are feeling poorly as someone (maybe the not princess person) accused you of being a tightwad or something and your reaction is hyper sensitive to taking freebies from others. You have been stewing for the past 20 minutes about how YOU DO pay your fair share and that other person is just a block head.....who doesn't know a thing about you and on it goes - all the while getting more and more and ore worked up over the unfair accusation. NOW you walk in and I say: "Hey let me buy you a cup of coffee" And you snap at me and say "NO THANKS...I can buy my own darn coffee." Same Starbucks....same me....same you...same sentence. DIFFEENT REACTION Who changed the dynamic but you? it is our reaction that shifts, no? At times we are amused by stupid comments. At times we overreact. The choice of reaction is always ours, no? von

Agreed. The key to keeping those emotions on an even keel? von

I agree. Moving toxic people out of our lives could be hurtful. Then again, it is only hurtful because we WANT the to be different, no? It is because we WANT it to be different, yes? von

Many people have shaped the world view for each of us. Some would argue every contact has added at least one drop. A Buddhist teacher explained it with much better imagery-essentially each of us just floats alone... on a raft. We can tie our raft to others for a time...but no other person can make us happy on this journey. Conversely no other person can cause us to be sad either. Was as the Buddhist teacher correct? If yes, than another person is not the source of anger within any of us? von

Welcome back

Whatever I have evolved into spiritually - it is a completely mishmash of many teachers over time. And it is most definitely a work in progress (heavy emphasis on the word work in all that.) The few things I have picked up..when laid end to end...in my mind (whirring most of the time like a blender) ....the pattern that emerges is; being selfish can actually be beneficial? * When I tune out everything else - focusing only on my breath - my blood pressure does go down (it is all about me) * When I give anything away - it is not necessarily noble or charitable - I have come to know that I will get that and more back.....it immediately lets me feel good so it is not always for others that we are "generous" (it sort of is its own reward) * I cannot help anyone else if I don't take care of myself so I am learning to be selfish with my time in order to do more - I keep a bit more for myself * When I choose the moral high ground I have far less strife (don't lie = clear conscience) (don't steal/cheat = no guilt) It might be that the whole thing is incredibly simple. We may have to forget what we were taught and observe what works. Maybe? Anyone else out there seeing anything similar in your life? Is less more? von

Certainly it is understandable why you would not choose to stay in that environment. It is pretty tough to feel valued, relaxed or worth too much if you skew towards 100% responsibility and 0% authority. So now for a practical question - and I fear the answer - how do kids who are getting knocked around at home - get any help? I know I have seen line item budget info detailing having school counselors and psychologists on the grade school payroll.....how does that work? The teachers/principal refers them? And seriously what do you do with an out of control kid.....it seems highly likely in the scenario described you might have to hold one down to keep him from hurting himself or others - what is the protocol for these things? Is it any wonder a whole bunch of "Johnny's" are having trouble learning to read? von

Perhaps not so much imagination as ignorance of reality. Naturally my age is showing here. Okay - now I will ask rather than assume....how is discipline handled in school? von