VonNoble

Bravo. YOU STILL have an open mind! You will go where evidence leads you. You have done some amazing healing! von

To each - their own. I do respect Dan. Dan has also made a choice. He is under no obligation to choose as I do. Or as anyone else chooses. ULC is the one place we respect differences of belief. I truly appreciate that many have been hurt, frustrated, angered and way more than annoyed over the years by pushy, arrogant, demanding, politically active - hard ball driving fundamentalists of more than one religion. Fanatical at times can be a charitable word. What angers most of us is their inability to offer respect to any belief different than THEIR CHOICE. It is the lack of giving respect that infuriates. That alone is a lesson not to go there! ULC was founded upon tolerance with respect to all. BTW, Dan - I was not including YOU in the above notation...or any Christian per se. I realize i am not here for large blocks of time - so I surely may have missed something and will allow a point to the contrary, if there is one. I have been around for more than a decade - and I cannot recall any point in time where Dan has been, to me, a nonbeliever - anything but respectful. How can I do less. LeopardBoy sent me a personal communications more than two years ago - which I printed out and take up above my desk and I regret I lost the original exact wording in my recent move. In a nutshell - LeopardBoy nailed it: You get respect because you give it to others. von

Pete, Thanks for opening the door to address feelings and not just beliefs. I can intellectualize a great many things. I can not always reconcile my feelings to my thinking. You were told ...more than your earthly life ALL ETERNITY depended on YOU BELIEVING ....even death was not as important as this entire push carried beyond death. It was more important than life and death! The worst thing you could ever do is NOT BELIEVE! You could murder someone (which is bad, evil and a sin) but there is a mechanism to still accept you. You are accepted no matter what you do if you repent. Still today your doubt of faith can be washed away and you can be back in the club if you just say: I repent. I am sorry. I want back in...... Which is the safety net to make severing the relationship really tough. YOU CAN NEVER get away because we are here waiting for you to simply knock at the door and it will be opened to you..... When you consider all THAT - is it any wonder you are angry, hurt, and feeling conflicted about everything told to you since infancy. Important point: YOU DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO CHOOSE. You did not choose this path...someone else chose it FOR YOU. That is a big deal. It was chosen FOR YOU and any moment in time that you wondered about it or attempted to come to terms with the fact it wasn't working for you - - YOU WERE LETTING SOMEONE DOWN. Self doubt pushed at you over time has made this an incredibly difficult journey. On the one hand I am sorry it had to be that way. On the other - you gotta see you have done an amazing thing to undertake the journey! I have said so often I am thankful my parents DID NOT insist on us waiting till we were older to choose a path. I have remained thankful daily that my parents were not too pushy about believing (or not believing much of anything.) Each year of my life I have counted one of the greatest gifts they gave to us is that they allowed us to go where our natural curiosity took us. None of us grew up a-moral or unkind. We had a very strong sense of right and wrong. We were allowed to see the consequence of unkind and immoral and got to choose without any guilt trips - which life would be best for us. Only as an adult did I come to terms with what a whale of a prize that was! You did not blindly go through your entire life without making a choice for yourself. Once the choice is made, by you - as an adult (which has happened) then I say congratulations. Whatever steps it took to get to here - - - were necessary to get to here. You could not be who you are now - in some part - without taking every one of those steps. Thanks for sharing so openly the mountain you had to climb. And are still climbing. It makes me respect the effort, the journey and yes too - even the current struggle. Observation: Sure seems to me you are getting way more right than you ever got wrong. And whatever happened in the past - remains in the past. We all had to grow through stuff to get to where we are now. The past does NOT define your present other than noting where you started. von

Expand....the easiest person to fool ...is yourself von

Your best asset might be your faith, your stubbornness in refusal to die ...your ability to manipulate others....or an amazing sense of humor at just the right moment (I once defused a very ugly moment with a well placed joke) (not that I would rely on that for my survival either). If the systems fail - it may be that you will be in shock - and your best asset may be some one or something other than you......it is possible. It can only BE you if you are largely in control. If you are in a system foreign to you, when things are not at all familiar and the things you rely on are gone - the scenario changes a bit. Just worth a bit of a think. I saw more than a couple shocked people...and had to deal with them. Under ordinary circumstances I am quite certain they could handle almost anything. In shocking times. Not so much. For a short while they were more like their own worst enemy. Emotions overtake common sense and reason in extreme moments. And anyone can succumb to becoming irrational, obsessed or vengeful to name a few At which time they are not always their own best asset. When systems fail - it takes surprisingly little for some people to crack. Even those most sure they would not This is true too of the cruel loss of loved ones. The more horrible the loss, the greater the inability to cope/function without some time passing for some people. They just cease to function. That too can be a primordial survival mechanism. DOING is not always possible. Sometimes BEING is as good as it gets. Again, no real answer. Just continuing to process what in the heck my own best asset would be.... I want to believe I always can handle myself - if not the situation around me. I want to believe I can always control MY REACTION if nothing else. But I fear that is not the truth. I want it to be. But that doesn't make it so. I have not yet given into despair. But I have met that enemy and it lives in every man. von

ha! If only I were that clever. I didn't even realize I did that. I was noting places of interest (and places to avoid) on I-10 for a friend driving from Lafayette, LA to San Diego mostly along the I-10 corridor. My apologies to all. The number was a link to White Sands, Missile Range which would does have an dooms day echo to it. As a side note that would be in then "yes" column (The Thing... in Az would be in the "no" column) as far as recommendations. Back to the topic at hand. i appreciate that your best asset is indeed a good one to have! Not just when systems fail. That might be a good one every day. von

Your response was my first thought as well. The more I thought about it - the more I realized .... someone else did for me ....what I could not do for myself. Example: when we were young, my brother and I got into a silky game in a lake. It was funny right up until he held me under water too long. When he realized I was no longer struggling to get free .... he panicked. No help there. The lifeguard was talking to pretty girls. So my best asset was not me, nor my brother nor the system ( life guard)....It was a sort of fat older lady who was watching us and realized I was a goner....she fished me out. Similar experience when I was trapped in building in Omaha that partially collapsed after a tornado . I could not do a thing to free myself. The system was overwhelmed. Strangers eventually got me out, I was dependent on them to get me to a point to fend for myself.....all my smarts and fitness were useless. My first instinct was identical to yours till I started thinking through what was... to calculate what is likely in the future Now I am abut older and fight things like steps .... if a system fails in a high rise.... i can say I am self reliant right up till I have to negotiate steps.... I am pretty crafty but I can easily foresee situations where my little brain understands I need ANYbody willing to help me... to continue to survive. i don't disagree a bit with your answer. I am really just processing it until it settles for me. von

I can SO relate to this. Sorry that happens WAY too often -thx for adding a real life example von

Hmmmm....any solution is limited then to the power of one Seems at times neighbors, friends, kind strangers save as many as save themselves...... i guess that works for all able bodied and fit people von

That was an interesting read. And it twi a side benefits I thank you for 1). It flummoxed my sister ( which gave me a tickle as it is RARE) 2). It gave her something to work on other than constant worry about our eldest brother.... we have tried everything ( and every contact we) have... still no word following Hurricane Maria....giving her a mental diversion gave me a break von

Excellent point... von

Like many people - right up until every toehold disappeared, I was confident in a good many things I have (reluctantly) come to question. It is good not to have blind faith. It is less good to become overly-wary. Immediately after the Hurricane Katrina situation, I experienced the full impact (initially) of a complete and utter failure of the state, local and federal government. That is not a condemnation - but rather a statement of fact for our area..initially. Good intentions abound. YOU KNOW help is on the way. On-the-way... is useless today (now.) Help now - is at the end of your arm. When the system fails - where would you turn? What is your best asset when systems fail? von

I happened to be on the phone with my sister when I saw this response. I may be able to shed some light on the confusion. According to my sister, who is my go to person for all things of a Jewish nature. - prior to Christianity the Jewish use of the word tithe was giving to the congregation.... (or simply to give charity. ) Wikipedia notes, as you said - it is currently used to denote donations to a church however... it adds it is a fixed amount collected in tax as well to the government. So both cleared and muddied the water a bit for me. My sister said that our family used the word as it originated in the Jewish sense - tithe means to give charity (cash) not to be confused with giving stuff - (different word.) Since we didn't have a "church" per se (and since half our family is Jewish) it came to us as an interchangeable word tithe/charity. So that clears up that mystery. thx von

My parents.... forward thinking people that they were- taught me to give to others regularly. If we made middle class we were on the low end of the cut-off to be sure. I know we qualified for aid some years. My father refused it- but I know we qualified. My parents insisted we give to others no matter what. If I worked all day for dollar as a kid... only 80 cents of it was mine. Ten cents went in the " sharing bowl" and ten cents went into a non- opening piggy bank Recently I was told giving money to a neighboring family on hard times was not " tithing".... tithing must be done through a Church At home tithing was the sharing bowl. So if it is done thru a church it is tithing... but if you just help someone on your own it is charity? Is there a third option? When I look at the tax codes helping someone directly isn't charity... von

... true to some extent. I truly do find I am more consistent with exercise (and need to be) since getting the fitness stuff on the watch. Different people ard motivated by different things. For me it has helped. It was a device that allowed me in a solitary situation to have a "workout buddy" .... the buddy program overall has proven to benefit most people. von

THANK YOU.... I very much appreciate the confirmation. Yes. I am a life long swimmer and did note the new advantage a water resistant watch. That was one of the things making me consider an upgrade. The connectivity issues bothers me though. Thanks again - it is a big bit of money so I am trying to be a bit more practical then I might have been years ago von

I am not sure I have a valid one... Many years ago a meditation teacher told me the present time is only between breaths. We can only know I our current self between the breaths If that is true-then Self exists in the space between breaths. von

You are very fortunate that said friends are so caring and GENTLE. We need more if that in the world, no? von

Hey move over you two... Then again that could be a ruse. We might be clever and wily and sly (NAH! ) von

The first benefit concert I remember being aware of us was for Biafra Children. It was a long time ago (maybe around 1970) Anyway, are they a good idea? ANY help is good. I get that. But they do take time to organize (coordination of schedules etc.) and there are dollars involved to make them happen even if the "talent" donates their time. There are always costs involved. I once calculated the money raised at a local church bake sale (I stopped by to find some homemade goodies) and in the course of discussion I was told how much they raised the previous year. I asked how many people donated cakes and pies etc. and took the approximated answer .....divided it by the $$ raised and figured out if each person who spent money to bring something had just thrown in $15 they would have raised more. I have done this over time and often found a donation equivalent to the money spent to bring things, sell tickets, flip pancakes or sell coupon books - would have been ahead to just get the darn donation up front. In light of some issues (over time) with funds donated during crisis actually getting where they are going...I wonder if the benefit concerts are actually effective? They raise awareness for sure. Do they also raise funds FOR THE CAUSE ....effectively? von

There is zero point in pretending I even understand remotely the electronic devises I already have.... 1) I am certain the devices can do way more than I use them to do 2) I am sure I am an easy mark when I go into any electronics place to buy something... I ask questions but often feel my head start to spin when sales people explain it I have a low dollar Apple wach. After a decade plus if not needing or wanting a watch... I was intrigued with the fitness watch craze. I like it as a reminder- record type tool. I really like the little reminder gizmo to stop and take a minute to breathe. i had intended to get a new one as a package deal with the X phone around the end of the year After looking at reviews online... there seems to be connectivity issues with the new version of the watch ( that I do not understand) so I am folding the money over and skipping any upgrade. The one I have now is working fine. There is no need to change that But my phone is getting old (like me) and more than one place this past year told me I needs new version of it. ( planned obsolescence?) as the guts ( my understanding) although currently- working... are less able to keep up. I am told I need a " smarter" version of my smart phone. I am reasonably confident the 8 version of the phone will handle all I need to do. I am Wondering why anyone would want an X version? Am I missing something? Is there any reason a non-jet setter would have a use for a X? Thx von

Is there any chance you read or saw Equivocation ( Bill Cain)...? I am thinking I don't care for it one bit. Which usually indicates I don't really understand it. I might need some help with it. Thx von

And what of the moment of transference from THIS to THAT.... Pergaps a moment with no name? von

As do I ! Sometimes I didn't realize I made the mistake initially. Sometimes someone explaibs things to me ... I think about it and realize ... geesh....I made a mistake! Somtimes feedback from others helps me to do better. Sometimes I learn from others sharing their mistake... which is good ...I don't have time enough to make all the mistakes myself ( old joke) Hearing feedback is'nt equivalent of handing over control if you life well it can be - but I can't view that as a healthful option in most instances. Whatever you are doing it is clearly working well for you - you seem to be in a good place von