Atwater Vitki

The Troll picture is quite interesting. It isn't clear, due to the angle and perspective of the drawing, but it appears the Troll has a Romulan Tachion Disrupter hanging off his belt...better be careful that one, can "get you" from anywhere! Isn't it an awful lot of trouble to create new names just to answer a thread? Isn't our IP what you look at for a screen name? Oh yeah, dat's right, "not my usual computer" and "at airport" would be diff IP anyway, huh? (With the various Wi-Fi's etc.) Blessings of Peace, (I certainly hope I used my parenthesis properly!)

Well Fawzo, be pal-o-buddy-o-mine, an ageless question of which I'm not sure we'll ever have a complete truth about. WARNING!....my personal view is a bit ragged, jagged and inter mixed with several philosophies, so may seem a bit "crazy". I don't recall all the technical terms and "labels", but.... it's all chemically induced. However, stress and anxiety are two of the best known inducers of "strange dreams" as well as the outside influences like (grateful) mentioned. This is where I firmly believe that losing touch with reality comes into focus as, also said above, a person finds the line between fantasy/dream and reality completely blurred or indistinguishable from our waking conscious. Much like LSD, tetracannebanol, mescaline, peyote or even heroin can induce....so I have read.... ....a blurred line between the two states of consciousness. (1) But, are we responsible for the origins and playing out of those thoughts in dream form? I would say someone like the yogi's, shaman and other highly trained priests/esses, who are well versed in mental conditioning and training, would say "yes", while those of us who have little control or expertise in this area would say "no". Part of my search for Self truth has been in this area of "control" over our thoughts/dreams/emotions. So I completely agree with the evaluation that certain people, with given "gifts" or "abilities", can control those thoughts. The rest of us? Eh, we're just fodder for yogi jokes....Why did the mortal cross the road with a mule? To explore what was his ass' fault!* If one believes like many Native American cultures, that this physical realm we are in here and now typing to a forum is the Dream-state and when we "dream" in this reality, it actually opens the doors to our "true reality", which is on the other side of this plane. How can we be held accountable for that? By our conscious awareness. It's not the "thought" or the few bytes of info, rather our actions in letting those random thoughts play out or materialize like Grateful** said. My only disagreement or opposition to this basic thinking from our Native "hosts" in America, is then why is our dream, if this conscious state is our 'dream', so linear? In this, conscious reality, we progress from infant to elder, apprentice to master all in a linear manner, unlike our altered, dream state which has us young, old, super-human, less than pig dung all in the same unaware state of sleep. That to me would be an incredibly difficult, far too random to make sense of, "reality" to live in. Now, much of that line of thinking may well have come from a chemically induced state of being, which to the observer is just as real as sitting here and then gets translated into real, physical plane, actions. So even less within our 'control', but we do have a responsibility to the action of taking whatever (chemical/herb/potion etc) induced such thoughts. However, in contrast to that view, I can also see, where if a person has that ability to control their thoughts, to a point of effectively relating to and positively interacting with the effects of such an chemically induced state of reality, it could well become an addictive plane of existence. This is what I think the "masters" of transcendental meditation actually accomplish. They freely move in and out of this area of the brain's abilities, and focus on the connection to the Universal Stream of conscious reality, without the substances of course. My friends up in Hupa country, have all done a Vision Quest as part of their ritualistic, shamanistic way of life. Peyote and/or mescaline and/or certain mushrooms are drank in a "tea" and what comes of that journey is said to affect the "rest of one's life" and if properly done produces one's correct path in Life. Even the oldest one, Gray Eagle, now in his 80's, has only done this twice in his life. Once as a maturing teen to find his way, once during his difficult time as he called it, to find his way BACK to his proper path, in his 30's. It is not a "party" experience, rather an attempt to answer many of Life's deepest questions concerning Self. Yeah, I know, but I "warned ya"! I do have a rather odd view of this topic, but to me, just as "sound" as any other. Of course that does little more than show my own need for proper medical attention and mental evaluation by the "experts"...but hey, any has been who tends to show a sporadic nature is "just an authority" IMHO! But alas my friend, have no worries, you are technically crazy for even thinking in such a way. We all know that everything from the inner most recesses of our thoughts to the other side of the Universe is all a dream. Nothing is "real", there is no reality and no one lives there. We are all nothing more than fantasized neuro-reactive, fraction of a millisecond worth of synapse in The Creator's mind! So what does s/he take to induce better dreams?(2) Blessings of Peace, *asphalt - road- doh! ** "...I believe we are responsible for processing them in a way that causes no harm to ourselves or others; but to their origins and our responsibility for them, not so sure..." (1) See PM in your mailbox! (2) I've been told, by those in the "know" it's Hydra-sapien-i-craniol, a succinctly strong, pate-like concoction of hypothalamus, frontal lobe and visual cortex. (This can be served chilled on crackers or bread or eaten warm, spooned directly from the convenient, bowl shaped container it comes in.) (No need, wife has already called them!)

Fawzo...once again you have given sage words of advice to anyone seeking any form of "deliverance" from their despair. I suppose this is exactly why, as an Odhinnist Pagan, I believe what I do about religion vs. belief system. While seeking THE Truth, I found MY Truth. To date I can admit that my belief system, the one I have much faith in, has been tested so many times I've lost count but none the less I have emerged unscathed. If anything, I would have to say the challenges have made me stronger. I believe, in general, that this is why so many people react so radically to any actual, or perceived, threat towards their religion. A mantra, or repeated phrase of any sort, can "make" a person believe many things, and I believe this is why so many people simply keep quoting the same things over and over concerning their religion. It hasn't yet become their truth. My nephew, (the one that works for Family Radio) is a prime example of this...yes I know, I do 'pick on him' a lot...ask him, as I did on Christmas Day, what he thought about "Grandma's failing health" (we were all there for probably her last one) ...he quotes something out of, I think it was Daniel, regarding having "faith in our times of need". "But what do you think?" I repeat... he quotes another verse...long story short, he got very annoyed with me asking what he thought (a total of five times) and then goes off my need for salvation, then I would "understand". He use to be such a good kid!!! j/k he still is, he just can't think for himself! Quoting any text does not make one a believer, it only makes them a mimic. I've also talked before that even though I have 30+ years in my field, I'll be danged if I can quote hundreds of lines from the Eddas, or the Book of Troth (orig or 1980's rewrite), but I can describe to you, in my own words, what either of those texts means to me or what I have learned to believe about them. Emulating does not mean copying word for word, it means to be like them (deity or what have you that you are emulating) Christ, Moses, Abraham...99.9999999% of all named "authorities" in the Bible spoke their truth, what they Believed, they didn't quote others....they spoke for themselves what religion, secular rule, temple, ritual etc etc all meant to them. A personal Truth, IMHO, means being able to give example or dissertation of that truth, not simply repeating someone else's words. A good example, imo, would be Richard Nixon "I am not a crook!" I wonder how many times he repeated that before he believed it? Or did he ever? Blessings of Peace, .

Wasn't there one of them hippie songs....Turn, Turn, Turn... in the 60's that said all this? Ec:3:1: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: Ec:3:2: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; Ec:3:3: A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; Ec:3:4: A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; Ec:3:5: A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; Ec:3:6: A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; Ec:3:7: A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; Ec:3:8: A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of .

Dear "saved", How do you relate the powers of satan to Wicca? This has probably been addressed somewhere in the 140-150?? some odd responses prior, but THAT dear brother/sister is insulting. The "powers of Satan" in Wicca? Nope sorry, two completely different subjects and Subjects. Now IF you were converting, like the rice, a couple of Satanists....maybe it might apply.....maybe that's why I never liked "Uncle Ben's"???? Winning? Isn't that something better left on the ball field or Scrabble table? Converting is not "winning", it is the oppressive mark of "Satan" if you go by Scriptures, when anyone judges another, when anyone deems another NOT to be a child of "God". When y'all gonna learn when people come crawling on hands and knees and ASK for Spiritual help, THEN it's time to OFFER some religious advice or even a story about "what worked for you". Converting is no less the "Devil's work" than the very things y'all term as being of the Devil, from Satan etc. Me thinks you should re-read and perhaps even better UNDERSTAND what you read in them thar 58 Chapters of personal feel good. Blessings of Peace, PS: Sorry everyone, I realize I'm six months late in finding this topic, but whoooo-eee does that light a fire under me cauldron when such ridiculous, TOTALLY IN MY OPINION, statements are made. Ever had a Wiccan, Druid or Pagan show up at your door asking if "You've been enlightened?" Noooo? Hm, gee think there might be REASON for that? Ya never will have 'door to door sales' on Pagan beliefs either.

♫ Harrrummm ♪ Aw Lordy, Lordy ♪ give me an amen Brother! Harruumm♫♪ ohhhh IN the light of the Lord! ♪ Can ya GIVE me a hallelujiah!?♫ ♪ Harruuum♪ Give me a Thank YOU Jeeee-sus!♫ ♪♪♫ ....somehow I just heard the sequence from the "Blues Brothers" when the brothers go see their old boys school nun and the "Lights Go On" when Elwood and Jake get their "Great Idea". Somehow it just seemed to fit. Rev. Irma said: I will only say this dear Sister, the quiet explosion of this experience is there to be had, prayer/meditation, which ever label you prefer will indeed "get you to the train station", the journey will follow. If I might suggest to the person who helped me find this wondrous event may speak to you in a like and kind way. Put away all preconceived ideas, follow the simple instructions of your own heart, which will quiet the ever screaming mind....and glorious wonder of wonders, it can be experienced. This is a "Truth" that can only be experienced, it can not be adequately expressed so that anyone could get you to understand, but through the insights and experience of others who have been there, follow the hints, take the seemingly innocuous instructions seriously. Sister Irma, you have no idea the rumble of echos, the unfiltered noise of the Multi-verse that filled my head while I too was seeking to hear that barely audible sound due to the interference from the physical world. All I can say is that experiences like this, if I but have it only once in my Life, (I pray not, but am satisfied none the less if it is) is something that has opened my physical eyes to the magnificence, wondrous awe of things we have little comprehension of in the Spiritual Realms available to us. Blessings of Peace, Of course, it's just a TV show, but Fringe is exploring this phenomena when it returns in January. Walter, Olivia and Peter have been and returned, well Olivia 2 did and...well followers know the story line. Again, just a TV show, but I think having "Spock" (Leonard Nemoy) play the grand puba was most interesting. Blessings, Serendipity...621 = this post, just got to 621 wins "0" losses on Free Cell and got a 621 last night on Yahtzee! Hmmm I better play 6-2-1 on Lotto today!

I see several intelligent comments above, I also see where many of us, myself included, have difficulty understanding things of the Supra-consciousness, which of course is limited due to our "Human Condition". I often have doubts as to whether or not we, in this human form, are suppose to understand these things. One of the "issues" I've always had with the levels of thought, physical, the Now, here on up to and through the Supra - conscious....ethereal, Universal, the "Ultimate thought" process. Perhaps, these are things our humanity was never meant to know as we certainly seem to drive ourselves crazy trying to find the answers to it all! I mean what if...a BIG What if....someone who had actually been to, seen with their own eyes and consciousness, this "place" of the highest intelligence, a place of the Collective Consciousness, could they even begin to explain to the rest of us "what" it was like? I'm not so sure as the rest of humanity would still be thinking and looking at the event through non-experienced eyes and thoughts. If a hundred, thousand or million people had "gone to" this place of awe and wonder, would the rest of humanity believe it or like everything else counter-mand, mistrust and disclaim those who had "been there"? I know there is at least one person here who understands where I'm coming from on this angle. Even together it would be a monumental task to get others to understand, even believe such a place exists. So then as individuals, we can make our claims and do the best we can to get others to at least embrace the concept, even if relating details would be a bit much, OR keep it to themselves, exchange experiences only with those who have seen it, been there etc.. Which best serves humanity? It's sorta like the food thing in Rev. Rainbow's topic, until you've actually tasted it, you really don't know....and getting beyond our human emotions and preconceived concepts about things...well...y'all know. Blessings of Peace,

Having done a little more reading, I found " So one must be intelligent enough to understand the purpose of the Vedas, without being attached to the rituals only, and must not desire to be elevated to the heavenly kingdoms for a better quality of sense gratification. " and I can see that this could apply to any religious text or religion itself. This is one aspect that simply chokes me when, on occasion, I attend services at my Mother's church. Everyone does the rituals with such fervent glee, then proceeds home and seemingly forgets they were even in a place of worship. I think this could be said about many people and many different "religions", the show put on during worship, the complete lack of anything qualitative afterward or even remotely putting it into practice after we have impressed the congregation with our perfect performance of ritual. I can say the same about the rituals of my Pagan beliefs as well. I know a few folk who are even more adept at quoting Edda or Troth than I and one even knows the Hávamál, some 165 verses by "heart". When I lived in Willow Creek, the man who could recite nearly 600 lines of text, allowed little of it into his mind and heart. He was a constant source of counseling and arrests for domestic battery etc, yet knew one of the "most sacred" of old Nordic passages word for word. A prime example of what I think the passage from the Gita to mean. Whether we beseech Lord Vishnu, "God" or Odhinn to reach into our hearts and show us example, we must be willing to give up our material world...all material including the physical in order to attained our full purpose and spiritual glory. I recently had a major breakthrough in my meditations which has given me just a glimpse of what that is like, to completely "give up" the physical. It is amazing to say the least. Breaking from our ingrained, ritualized patterns, and allowing our Higher Self to come to terms with not being attached to the material world is something our Humanism is always at odds with. When we can't feel, smell, hear or see something, we are instantly wanting to discount or summarize things according to our physical being. When we can completely detach our Self from ritual, material, physical...then we can truly seek the Spiritual. Blessings of

Having just begun this topic, I'm not sure what protocol is, but I'll jump first.... I would have to think that the confusion and heavy heart held by Arjuna.... Gita Chap. 1 "Arjuna, the mighty warrior, sees his intimate relatives, teachers and friends in both armies ready to fight and sacrifice their lives. Overcome by grief and pity, Arjuna fails in strength, his mind becomes bewildered, and he gives up his determination to fight" ...is very human. Having been on battlefields in Viet Nam, it is certainly one thing to be opposing faceless, total strangers, but had I seen cousins and past acquaintances on the opposing side, I don't think I would have the gumption to fight either. Seeing people close to you, aligned with an opposing viewpoint is one thing, but so aligned that one is willing to die for that belief, now that puts quite a different spin on things, for sure. This opens the Gita, perhaps, with a formal wisdom concerning war and why it should be a very last resort. If we humans could see every conflict as Arjuna, as possibly being against someone you care about deeply, it would indeed make war an obsolete. It seems to me that this drastic opener brings insight more clearly into our conscious thinking about how we use conflict in our lives. If we make peace our dharma, or personal "law", conflict whether between family or strangers becomes impossible. Blessings of

Hm, famous or infamous? Clyde Barrow, or actually his brother Edmond "Wheel" Barrow! Blessings of Peace,

Sorry I missed the thread opening...but belated Merry Solstice to all. I was only able to catch a quick glimpse of the last roughly half of the eclipse due to cloud coverage here. I could however witness the darkening of the clouds until it was completely dark...a rather amazing quality on it's own actually. I was thrilled at the darkest point (obviously the full eclipse) to hear an owl screech off in the distance. Brought a quiver to me soul knowing nature was in tune with itself as always. Quiver turned to tremble knowing how man screws it all up. Was an excellent night, even if not able to "see" the actual eclipse, but the effects of it were none the less impressive. This solstice also marked a personal break through for me in my meditations. Several "Big Questions" answered through a most delightful and inspiring meditation lasting several hours. My chakras are still "singing" a bit! Blessings of Peace,

Happy Hanukkah - Happy Holidays - Happy Solstice! Shalom! - Peace on Earth! - Blessings of Peace! Whatever your "Happy" is this time of year! RevAl

My prayers, thoughts and healing energy go out to Jazzy and Josh. Please keep us updated. Blessings of Peace,

"Renfield, briiing me da nice lady." Dead and Lovin' It 1995...a total sleeper, but one of my favs They're all yours now oh Talented One. Yes, you will be missed for the billions of smiles you brought humanity. From 1956 The Vagabond King to 2009's An American Carol, you did 'em all and you did them well. Leslie Nielsen appeared in over a hundred movies and some 1,500 television programs during his career. He portrayed 224 different characters which of course Airplane and Naked Gun movies and sequels were his most revered and kept us all, including "Detective Frank Drebin", on the floor, or hanging from the chandelier. Blessings of Peace,

As this is the time of year so many of us reflect on the what we are thankful for, besides the obvious like family, pets and that $5,000 a week for Life from PCH that we ARE going to win this year, I'd like to make special mention of y'all. Thank you ULC and its membership of fine people. Everyone here has given me something. Whether we agree or not with every detail of our topics and debates I have learned something from every exchange. I am deeply moved by the overwhelming support of, inspirations and thought provoking assessments of the many exchanges and topics that have been posted to. This forum, and the membership that flocks together here has been more of a life changer than I can put in words. Whaaat? RevAl short on woooords? What??? Without gettin' all mushy and slobbery and so forth..... Thank you ULC Members for a wonderful past couple of years worth of insight and exchange that has become so important to me. Thank you for being here when I've been up, down or somewhere in between. Thank you for listening and responding when you felt the urge. In short, simply Thank You for being a very important part of my Life's Journey and Growth in Belief in what is Right in this world. Blessings of Peace, .

At Home: Summer: shorts, flip-flops, t-shirt or just boxer shorts Winter: sweats, 2 pair socks, slippers, robe or just boxer shorts Fall: PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp) or just boxer shorts Spring: PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp) or just boxer shorts In Public: Summer: shorts, flip-flops, t-shirt Winter: sweats, 2 pair socks, shoes, jacket Fall: PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp) Spring: PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp) Formal Wear: Summer: Hemmed shorts, flip-flops, Best t-shirt Winter: New sweats, 2 pair socks, slippers, Best robe Fall: New PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp) Spring: New PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp) Cleric Wear: Summer: Hemmed shorts, flip-flops, Best t-shirt, cleric collar Winter: New sweats, 2 pair socks, slippers, robe, cleric collar Fall: New PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp), cleric collar Spring: New PJ bottoms, t-shirt, flip-flops or slippers (depending on temp), cleric collar Doctor Appointments or other Medical needs: Summer: } Full body environmental suit with oxygen pack! Winter: } " Fall: } " Spring: } "