Jonathan H. B. Lobl

I'm not sure of what you are asking. Please rephrase so that I can be sure of the question. In the meantime, I will give it a shot. Let me know if this answeres what you are asking. I regard the Hebrew Scriptures -- even translated into English -- by Jewish publishers, to be radicly different than English translation of the O.T. In very small things, the translation is forced to carry a mountain of theology and invisible assumptions. Consider the opening lines of Genesis from the King James translation. We find the word "Spirit." Spirit takes a capital "S." The Trinity is implied. In the Jewish translation, the same word is translated as "wind." The original word is "ruach." This is something that Christians do. They read the Old Testament, and then insist that Jews explain it. Judaism is not responsible for the O.T. Only it's own scriptures -- which, I repeat -- were hijacked and transformed.

I have never been to Maine. I do like bluberries.

Hello Rabbio. While I'm not at all clear that my views are in harmony with Judaism -- yes, I'm still a Jew. Now to the question. Since the question was blunt, I will be blunt. By what ever name we call them -- Hebrew Scrptures, Tanach, Torah, etc -- they are the Jewish Scriptures. What the Jews do with these scriptures is an internal matter for the Jews alone. Nobody else gets a vote. On the other hand, if we are speaking of the Christian Bible -- in particular, the Old Testament -- This is a Christian problem. The Christians hijacked these scriptures 2,000 years ago. If the Christian world has O.T. questions, they must find their own answers. If Non-Christian gentiles have O.T. questions, they should consult Christian clergy.

That is a very big if -- and I made no such claim. Quite the contrary. Good and Evil are dualities. The Unity behind all things must be beyond all dualities; including good and evil. I conclude that God is not good Or evil.

Is that the problem? God, the Unity behind existence, is beyond all duality -- including good and evil. Consequently, God is neither good nor evil. IMO.

Yes, there is only The One. (Unless you follow the Gnostic line and believe in the lesser, evil creator.)

I was a little slow with some editing, so I will add a few quick thoughts here. Christians, when laying claim to the Jewish covenant, like to quote Jesus on the skins. That new wine (Christianity) can not be poured into old skins (Judaism), lest the skins burst. From this, the advocates of Christianity would make it the vessel of Jewish authority. The new replaces the old. Islam also has inheritance issues. Islam traces back to Ishmael, son of Abraham. Every Muslim will tell you that it is the oldest son who inherits from the father. Judaism -- and Christianity -- trace back through Issac and Jacob. Another major disagreement. The inheritance stuff keeps coming up. Next with Esau and Jacob. (another story) Of course, that pattern is set by the children of Lillith and Eve. (Pure folklore, but fascinating.)

I hope this is an amiable discussion rather than a fight. I meant what I said. Smaller bites, please. I'm ready to discuss as many ideas as you like. Just not all at once. To continue. The relationship between Islam, Chrisitianity and Judaism: Judaism has always seen itself as a covenant -- that is -- a contract -- between Jews and God. Think of Judaism as God 1.0. Christianity regards itself as the NEW covenant, and as such, a replacement for Judaism. Think of Christianity as God 2.0. The Jews are still running God 1.0. The Christians have always taken it as an insult that the Jews refuse to upgrade. The new wine into old skins argument. Islam regards itself as the NEW -- new covenant. Islam regards itself as God 3.0. Islam takes it as an insult that both the Christians and the Jews are refusing to upgrade. Note that Islam is regarding both Christians and Jews exactly as the Christians have always regarded the Jews. B'Hai (probably the wrong spelling) regards itself as the next covenant after Islam. That would be God 4.0. Muslims resent B'Hai for making such a claim. Develpment is not linear. There are other claims. The Mormons believe that they are the Third Covenant -- God 3.0. From the start, this has aroused hostility from Christians. The Unification Church of Sun Myung Moon teaches that they are the third covenant. Judge for yourself how well those claims have been received. New(er) religions can claim descent of authority from older religions. They do. That does not mean that old(er) religions are under any obligation to take those claims seriously, or to accomodate. The followers of those religions frequently have difficulty playing nicely with each other. The wheel turns. Sometimes, it spins. Next question?

No. They are free to seek God and emotional support as they will. Having said that, there are enough issues and problems in my life. I don't need to take on their stuff.

Smaller bites, please. That is a lot to respond to in one shot. In no particular order; Consider what became of Buddhism in India. After Buddha's death, Buddhism was largly absorbed back into mainstream Hinduism. Buddha himself became an incarnation of Vishnu -- Just like Krishna and various other avatars. I think this is where the Jesus movement was headed, before Paul intervened. The Jesus movement would have been absorbed into the Judaism of the time.

An old bit of graphiti: "When confused and in doubt Run in circles, scream and shout."

We agree on that much. The market place of ideas has something for every possible taste and resonance -- and yes, the Jews for Jesus are a small minority; unloved by the majority of Jews.

Interesting..... I suspect that the Jews for Jesus/Messianic Jews will have a few bones to pick with you. Since I am not among their number, I will not speak for them.

Judaism is the religion of the Jews; not of Humanity. Judaism is not concerned with "those who are not of the faith." That is a modern sensability. Judaism was a tribal identity long before any such concerns. In addition, Christianity does not spring from Judaism, but from Paul. The Jesus movement, led by Jesus, had a Jewish membership only. But for Paul, it would have stayed a Jewish movement. We can quibble from now till doomsday about doctrinal differences between Judaism and Christianity. The big difference is that Christianity became a religion that seeks to convert the whole world. Judaism, even now, continures to discourage converts.

No. Judaism is a tribal religion. The difference between Jews and Christians is much more basic. It is gentiles.

I agree with you about the culture shifting over time. The gods change with the times. Not the literal gods of course. It is symbolism. The ancient Greeks worshiped the three Fates. So did the Norse. Today, we have Lady Luck. She is one now instead of three, but she is what is left of the Fates. What is more, Lady Luck is still worshiped. Have you seen the movie, "Guys and Dolls?" When Sky Masterson (Marlon Brando) sings -- "Luck be a Lady tonight" -- nobody needs an explanation. We know who Lady Luck is. Hermes is also very much with us, today. Hermes had an interesting cultural development. He started off as the "messenger of the gods." From there, he became "god of the road." From there, "god of the crossroads." What happens at the crossroads? Commerce, theft, etc. Hermes became the patron god of doctors, merchents, thieves and gamblers. To this day, gamblers still call out their prayers to Hermes. "C'mon seven! Daddy needs a new pair of shoes!" Of course, nobody understands needing good shoes, like the messenger of the gods. Just look at his winged sandals. It isn't all about money. Mother Nature is still very much with us. The old Earth Mother lives on in her. The old gods live. Perhaps in reduced form, but they are still with us. Look past the surface. There they are, in plain sight.

If you want an interesting goddess, there is nobody quite like Sekhmet, the lion headed goddess, of the Egyptian mythos. Her worship was ancient before the Jewish god was anything more than a minor tribal deity. In her story, she went into a killing frenzy. The other gods thought she might destroy all of humanity. None dared oppose her. The other gods finally took a huge quantity of beer, which they colored the color of Human blood. They left it where she would find it. Only when she was too drunk too kill did the killing stop. Sekhmet is also considered a healing goddess, and the source of modern day seikhim reiki.

I was thinking of the ancient Middle East. Like "God" today, known by many names and titles, but always the same Goddess. To her children, Holy Mother and Protector, Queen of Heaven. To all others, pure terror.

The ancient pagan world had a "Queen of Heaven" -- long before Mother Mary.

There is a type of Buddhist meditation -- I think the technique is called "Mindfulness -- where we watch thoughts passsing through the mind. We don't attach importance to the thought, we just watch the thought pass through. It is not the origen of the thought that matters. It is how we react to the thought and what we do with it.

Does belief in God have anything to do with Heaven? Jesus? Prophets? Saints? No. It doesn't.

Nicely done.

I would have to answer from the perspective of Pantheism: God is everything and everything is God. Look at the Universe. That is the face of God. At least, the manifestation. Jonathan Lobl

In a search for the truth? No. At least, not for me. If fools and rogues would stop hoaxing; a better case could be made. Jonathan Lobl