Jonathan H. B. Lobl

There is a difference between a drop of water and an ocean. Also, they are the same. The question is too vague.

I am a Jew and a ULC minister. My beliefs are not standard to Judaism and I am not Christian.

A distinction is not being made here. There is a huge difference between being "tolerant" and being "respectful." I tolerate the intolerant. I don't respect them.

Of course. The charge would be "ethnic cleansing" or Crimes against humanity.

If the brain is replaced -- one cell at a time -- there might not be any such change. If one brain cell can be replaced -- in time -- they can all be replaced. What then do we have? Is it still a Human brain? If one brain cell is replaced, is it still a human brain? Yes. Is there a tipping point where it is no longer human? Maybe. Comments?

What does that mean?

You never did say what you want the degree for. It makes a difference.

I was ordained by ULC in 1978. I can not say what it means for one reason. The meaning changes over time. This much I can say. It is a calling. The ULC is not an on-line church. It is a church that has an on-line presence. The first Universal Life Church was set up by Kirby Hensley, in Modesto California, in 1959. Strictly brick and mortar -- long before the internet. It has been in continuos operation and is still there. Beware the power and authority game. So many enjoy taking the wind out of the sails of others. It is not for others to define you or your church. Ordination comes from God. IMO. Welcome to the forum.

Downloading a human brain into a computer is not going to happen any time soon. What will start happening; in the near future, is replacement issues. John Doe has lost all his teeth. He has a new set of dental implants installed. Any problem with his humanity yet? No? Add a few other replacements. A new hip. A knee replacement. A mechanical heart. An artificial kidney. Any problem yet, with being human? No? Keep going. Artificial skin. Some titanium bones. No problems yet? How about a few computer chips implanted in his brain? The years go by. More and more parts wear out and are replaced. Is there a tipping point? Is there a point where this person stops being a person?

Does the government have an interest in drunk driving?

If we are getting into the meanings of our words -- we can look at "politician." The prefix "poli" means "many." "Tics" are blood sucking insects.

The Bubonic Plague, aka, The Black Death -- was a great boost to the economy of Europe. It is the default solution, if we can't find a more gentle means of population controle. War also works of course. So does famine. I would prefer something less awful.

What are you saying? That Law and Law Enforcement can be replaced by the market place?

It is a touch more complicated than that. There is an organic quality to law that causes growth. The government has a responsibilty to make driving on public roads as safe as possible. That means drunk driving has to be outlawed. Then impaired driving has to be defined. And blood alcohol levels. And standards of observable infraction. And of course, there is the whole structure of enforcement. Police, lawyers, judges, prison, rehab. etc. Another valid area of government concern is food safety and purity. Do we really want ground up rat and rat feces in our hamburger meat? What about human fingers and blood, from workers empolyed in unsafe conditions? What about drug safety? Should there be a penalty for selling false substances in place of medications? What about sanitary packaging? What about our banks? Should there be no controles at all on what a bank can do? None of this happens in the abstract; for the sake of growing the law. There are valid reasons for all of it.

I came late to this thread. Uploading an organic brain to a virtual world? Nonorganic sentience in a marriage with organics? Machine souls? Non-organic un-conscious? The issues are too complex for a general thread. And too many. AI casting runes? (Actually, I think the I Ching would work better, under these conditions.)

I was not quoting you. We each came up with the same thought independent of each other. Perhaps great minds do think alike. Well," when we are in complete agreement with each other, one of us must be right . "(misquoting Rodger and Ebert)

Humanity is not yet perfect. There is still a lot of room for improvement. We need more time. Until the process is complete, we will need government. In the meantime, I suggest cultivating patience.

Which brings us to "enlightenment."

When babies enter the world, they seem miserable enough. All that crying.

I agree. The Unity behind existence, must be beyond all dualities -- including good and evil. IMO.

Since we are manifestations of God -- and don't remember -- that is the case. IMO.

I'm in full agreement. Demanding statistic proofs that knowledge increases over time...... Why bother?

It is a basic problem. We don't know what we don't know.

Nature is not good or evil. Nature is indifferent. Nature is not sentient. Humanity is both good and evil. Humanity is sentient. There is darkness. There is light. It depends where we look. Nothing about any of this is new. What is new is the awareness. Now that we know about the "inner darkness" -- we no longer need to project it onto others. What we don't like in our selves; is the darkness that we see in others. IMO.