Images of Light and Dark in Scripture

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Images of Light and Dark in Scripture

I think this can be a fun thread, without reference to personal belief.

 

Two from the King James version.  (BibleGateway.Com)  

 

 

1. Isaiah 45:7
   I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

    
2. Jeremiah 4:23
   I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

    

   

    

    

[MyanarWultan]

Genesis 1:1-4 (Revised Standard Version)

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.

And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

 

2 Samuel 22:29

For thou art my lamp, O Lord: and the Lord will lighten my darkness.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

2 Samuel 23:4

And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

[Pete]

Genesis makes no sense.  The day and night and the vegetation were made before the sun and moon. Without the sun there is no day. it is the rotation of the earth in relationship to the sun that creates a day. Plants need the sun in order to grow but they flourished on the third day and sun was made on the fourth day. This is just poetic nonsense.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Pete

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

Genesis makes no sense.  The day and night and the vegetation were made before the sun and moon. Without the sun there is no day. it is the rotation of the earth in relationship to the sun that creates a day. Plants need the sun in order to grow but they flourished on the third day and sun was made on the fourth day. This is just poetic nonsense.

 

 

You want Genesis to make sense?               Let's have a look.

 

 

Genesis 1:16

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

The Earth is a six day construction project.  The stars -- the rest of the Universe -- were an after thought.  "He made the stars also."  Galaxies beyond counting.  Billions of light years away.  Billions of stars in the galaxies.  "He made the stars also."

 

For that matter, the Moon is not a light.  It reflects the Sun's light.  Then again, light does not need to be separated from darkness.  That's not how it works.

 

All of this is beside the point.  When I started this thread, I was thinking about the symbolism of God as Light.  That was the focus of my intent.  It still is.  I find Light symbolism interesting.  Poetry.  Not science.     

 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

You want Genesis to make sense?               Let's have a look.

 

 

Genesis 1:16

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

The Earth is a six day construction project.  The stars -- the rest of the Universe -- were an after thought.  "He made the stars also."  Galaxies beyond counting.  Billions of light years away.  Billions of stars in the galaxies.  "He made the stars also."

 

For that matter, the Moon is not a light.  It reflects the Sun's light.  Then again, light does not need to be separated from darkness.  That's not how it works.

 

All of this is beside the point.  When I started this thread, I was thinking about the symbolism of God as Light.  That was the focus of my intent.  It still is.  I find Light symbolism interesting.  Poetry.  Not science.     

 

Is god light. Is god real. What do we really know first hand about god that you were not taught to think. How can we test that god is light? 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

Is god light. Is god real. What do we really know first hand about god that you were not taught to think. How can we test that god is light? 

 

 

If you really want to do this.  Alright.  Small bites and strictly my own Agnostic opinion.

 

Is God real?  I want to be clear on the meaning of real.  Something is real when it has independent, objective, existence.  Is God real?  We have no objective, verifiable facts about God.  Nothing at all.  God could be real.  We have no good reason to suppose that this is so.  In my opinion, God is a fantasy.  Or a personification.  I don't want to make those distinctions now.  Later, if you like.

 

Is God Light?  No.  This is confusing a symbolic representation with reality.  Light is real.  Light is a symbolic representation of God, which is not real.  As symbolism for God goes; Light is a lot more sophisticated than an old man in the sky.

 

Thanks to physics, we actually know a lot about Light.  Is Light a particle or a wave?  The correct answer is "Yes."  

 

[Pete]

I have no criticism about your views Jonathan.  In fact I respect them. 

It was just the statement "is god light?"

It seems we are trying to discuss the characteristics of an unsubstantiated concept that has no physical evidence to prove its existence.

We must first prove God before we can describe character. Otherwise it is similar  to debating does a vacuum have consciousness. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I have no criticism about your views Jonathan.  In fact I respect them. 

It was just the statement "is god light?"

It seems we are trying to discuss the characteristics of an unsubstantiated concept that has no physical evidence to prove its existence.

We must first prove God before we can describe character. Otherwise it is similar  to debating does a vacuum have consciousness. 

 

We must first define God.  This is one reason that I've lost my taste for religious arguments.  What does it really count for, when I define the God that I don't believe in?  Trying to prove or disprove an undefined God is futile.  Still the arguments wage on.  So much heat.  So little light.  No pun intended.

 

 

 

[Dan56]

17 hours ago, Pete said:

Genesis makes no sense.  The day and night and the vegetation were made before the sun and moon. Without the sun there is no day. it is the rotation of the earth in relationship to the sun that creates a day. Plants need the sun in order to grow but they flourished on the third day and sun was made on the fourth day. This is just poetic nonsense.

 

"God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light" (Genesis 1:3). There was light prior to day 4 (plants)

 

16 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

If you really want to do this.  Alright.  Small bites and strictly my own Agnostic opinion.

 

Is God real?  I want to be clear on the meaning of real.  Something is real when it has independent, objective, existence.  Is God real?  We have no objective, verifiable facts about God.  Nothing at all.  God could be real.  We have no good reason to suppose that this is so.  In my opinion, God is a fantasy.  Or a personification.  I don't want to make those distinctions now.  Later, if you like.

 

Is God Light?  No.  This is confusing a symbolic representation with reality.  Light is real.  Light is a symbolic representation of God, which is not real.  As symbolism for God goes; Light is a lot more sophisticated than an old man in the sky.

 

Thanks to physics, we actually know a lot about Light.  Is Light a particle or a wave?  The correct answer is "Yes."  

 

 

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it" (Revelation 21:23). So, "God is light" (1 John 1:5), a different kind of light from the sun. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

 

"God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light" (Genesis 1:3). There was light prior to day 4 (plants)

 

 

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it" (Revelation 21:23). So, "God is light" (1 John 1:5), a different kind of light from the sun. 

I get enlightenment used as a term for wisdom revealed but that has no support to a plants photosynthesis.

[RevBogovac]

Just a little side note (though still on topic). Fun for a bit of "light" reading (pun intended) and says (again) more about people than about any (real or perceived) deity: Nightfall — by Isaac Asimov.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

Just a little side note (though still on topic). Fun for a bit of "light" reading (pun intended) and says (again) more about people than about any (real or perceived) deity: Nightfall — by Isaac Asimov.

 

 

I read it years ago.  Great stuff.            

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

7 hours ago, Pete said:

I get enlightenment used as a term for wisdom revealed but that has no support to a plants photosynthesis.

 

 

Do you really want to argue with Dan's beliefs? 

You know he's only going to throw more Bible Scripture at you.

 

 

 

[Dan56]

14 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Do you really want to argue with Dan's beliefs? 

You know he's only going to throw more Bible Scripture at you.

 

 

 

 

Excuse me, but who quoted 2 bible verses in the first post of this thread? In fact, you quoted a total of 5, while I quoted 2.

A case of the pot calling the kettle black?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Excuse me, but who quoted 2 bible verses in the first post of this thread? In fact, you quoted a total of 5, while I quoted 2.

A case of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

 

I enjoy Bible symbolism in the same way that I enjoy poetry.  I do not confuse Bible symbolism for reality.  I do not use Bible symbolism to explain reality.  That is because Bible symbolism is not reality.  I take a statement like -- God is Light -- or -- God is Love -- to be symbolic statements.  These symbolic statements have nothing to do with reality.

 

Your confusion stems from the fact that you disdain distinctions.  You have been clear on that, these many years.

Yes, I have quoted passages about Light as a symbol for God.  That is the point of this thread.  Symbolic representation of God.  Not the actual existence of God.  Small wonder that you were confused.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

 

 

1. Job 3:4
   Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.

   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

    
2. Job 3:9
   Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:

   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

[damnthing]

More babble from the bibble. Anyone who quotes from the bibble as if to prove a point clearly suffers from some form of mental illness. It would be like quoting from Harry Potter and referencing all the other Harry Potter books as additional proof. Why do we suffer the weak-minded?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, damnthing said:

More babble from the bibble. Anyone who quotes from the bibble as if to prove a point clearly suffers from some form of mental illness. It would be like quoting from Harry Potter and referencing all the other Harry Potter books as additional proof. Why do we suffer the weak-minded?

 

 

 

I am a poor, miserable choice to be an advocate for the religious.  Still, as the saying goes -- there comes a time when we must set aside our values and do what's right.  

 

The manuals of mental disorder do not list religion or religious belief.  No.  Religious belief is not a form of mental illness.  I shouldn't have to say this.  History is filled with highly intelligent, brilliant minds that were -- are -- deeply religious.  I've met a few of them.  Being religious is not the same as being weak minded.  For that matter, I used to be religious.  I think my understanding of such things has improved.  In truth, I'm not actually smarter than I was then.

 

We have such a small planet.  We have to find ways to share it and live with each other.  That includes living with disagreement.

 

 

 

 

 

[cuchulain]

On 8/29/2021 at 8:26 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

 

I am a poor, miserable choice to be an advocate for the religious.  Still, as the saying goes -- there comes a time when we must set aside our values and do what's right.  

 

The manuals of mental disorder do not list religion or religious belief.  No.  Religious belief is not a form of mental illness.  I shouldn't have to say this.  History is filled with highly intelligent, brilliant minds that were -- are -- deeply religious.  I've met a few of them.  Being religious is not the same as being weak minded.  For that matter, I used to be religious.  I think my understanding of such things has improved.  In truth, I'm not actually smarter than I was then.

 

We have such a small planet.  We have to find ways to share it and live with each other.  That includes living with disagreement.

 

 

 

 

 

You often remind me of Dr Jubal Harshaw from "stranger in a strange land".  This is a good thing btw

Edited August 31, 2021 by cuchulain