Agnostic Theist

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

47 minutes ago, Pete said:

I see Dan's argument equivalent to someone believing in Pixies living in the centre of the sun. It maybe very unlikely but with faith you can believe that they are there. No one can disprove it. Therefore that is okay then.

😅🤣😂

 

 

Such is the nature of Dan's fact free faith.  But it's worse.  

• He think's that disproving pixies is our task.
• He takes the existence of the Sun as proof of pixies.
• He thinks that without pixies, we have no hope, no morals and no knowledge of divinity.
• Worst of all, is the insistence that the existence of pixies is important.

          

 

We are A-Pixy-ists.  Are we now doomed, to spend the rest of our lives arguing about pixies?  Or do we get to say  -- Sure pixies could exist, but so what?  There is no good reason to think that pixies exist and I don't care.

 

 

[damnthing]

13 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Christ did demonstrate God on Earth.. He did the impossible and rose from the grave, neither of which is irrelevant or meaningless.

You are always quoting an imaginary figure named cheeses, what real world evidence do you have of this so called cheeses and whatever jiggery do he supposedly perpetrated on the ignorant masses (present company included)

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

29 minutes ago, damnthing said:

You are always quoting an imaginary figure named cheeses, what real world evidence do you have of this so called cheeses and whatever jiggery do he supposedly perpetrated on the ignorant masses (present company included)

 

 

That's Dan.  Fact free, faith statements, made with certitude and conviction.  As though they were evidence.  

 

[damnthing]

8 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

That's Dan.  Fact free, faith statements, made with certitude and conviction.  As though they were evidence.  

 

I can probably correctly assume that your dealings with him are done out of amusement (and boredom). Otherwise I can't see any reason to humor him on his break with reality. I mean seriously, a guy gets nailed to some timber, supposedly dies, put into a climate controlled cave and two days later he's up and at 'em; all of which is highly detailed decades, centuries later by clearly unbiased reporting. Apathy and dismissal may seem appropriate but really, mockery and humor are more constructive, there is no benefit in taking dan or people like him seriously (unless we're talking about those involved and/or supportive of the insurrection last week in DC, then we need to because it did involve some dominionists (of which I am sure dan is one (dominionist, not insurrectionist, (I don't think))))

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 minutes ago, damnthing said:

I can probably correctly assume that your dealings with him are done out of amusement (and boredom). Otherwise I can't see any reason to humor him on his break with reality. I mean seriously, a guy gets nailed to some timber, supposedly dies, put into a climate controlled cave and two days later he's up and at 'em; all of which is highly detailed decades, centuries later by clearly unbiased reporting. Apathy and dismissal may seem appropriate but really, mockery and humor are more constructive, there is no benefit in taking dan or people like him seriously (unless we're talking about those involved and/or supportive of the insurrection last week in DC, then we need to because it did involve some dominionists (of which I am sure dan is one (dominionist, not insurrectionist, (I don't think))))

 

 

Over time, I have learned a lot from Dan.  Mostly about my own short comings.  I used to think that I could reason with anybody.  I was mistaken.  It has been an education.  As a result, I know much more about my limitations.

 

[damnthing]

Just now, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Over time, I have learned a lot from Dan.  Mostly about my own short comings.  I used to think that I could reason with anybody.  I was mistaken.  It has been an education.  As a result, I know much more about my limitations.

 

The first step is acknowledging that you have a problem, so bonus points for you, negative points for dan.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

 

 

 

I have also learned, that I am not as nice as I used to be.

 

 

[damnthing]

47 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

 

I have also learned, that I am not as nice as I used to be.

 

 

I'm not sure how nice I've ever been but when it comes to religio-paths I'm not nice at all

[Dan56]

13 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

 

Please let me help you, Dan; there is a big (huge) difference between past, present and future tense here. Demonstrable means: able to be proved.

 

So Dan; what can be done, repeatedly (or as scientists tend to say: verifiably), to demonstrate your god exists?

 

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). God is not a science experiment, nor can science demonstrate God, let alone prove He exist. You can't verify a spiritual entity by physical observation or experimentation. God's existence is demonstrated by all that exist, of which science has no provable answer for. Science can't create anything, it can only discover what has always been here.

 

1 hour ago, damnthing said:

I can probably correctly assume that your dealings with him are done out of amusement (and boredom). Otherwise I can't see any reason to humor him on his break with reality. I mean seriously, a guy gets nailed to some timber, supposedly dies, put into a climate controlled cave and two days later he's up and at 'em; all of which is highly detailed decades, centuries later by clearly unbiased reporting. Apathy and dismissal may seem appropriate but really, mockery and humor are more constructive, there is no benefit in taking dan or people like him seriously (unless we're talking about those involved and/or supportive of the insurrection last week in DC, then we need to because it did involve some dominionists (of which I am sure dan is one (dominionist, not insurrectionist, (I don't think))))

 

I agree with your last 3 words

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

40 minutes ago, damnthing said:

I'm not sure how nice I've ever been but when it comes to religio-paths I'm not nice at all

 

 

It's hard being nice, when people trip out on religious authority.  They Know.  As in -- "God and I make a majority".

 

When a young child talks to his invisible friend, it can be cute.  When an adult talks to his invisible friend, not so much.  When he expects me to be afraid of his invisible friend -- I sometimes forget to be tactful.

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

10 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). God is not a science experiment, nor can science demonstrate God, let alone prove He exist. You can't verify a spiritual entity by physical observation or experimentation. God's existence is demonstrated by all that exist, of which science has no provable answer for. Science can't create anything, it can only discover what has always been here.

 

 

I agree with your last 3 words

 

 

 

Oh, look! Trees and bed bugs and cancer!  

 

 

Which brings us, at best, to Deism.

 

 

Actually, not even.

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

The more I talk to Dan the more mad he appears.  We go over the same ground over and over again. Quoting a book we don't believe in is not going to convince anyone of anything.  There is no evidence that god  exists, no evidence that if Jesus existed or that he was god, no evidence that the bible is anything but a bronze age collection of myths and no evidence of anything miraculous or a god inspired influence is going on. We live on the earth but this planet is no more than a speck of dust in a massive ocean of space.  It is not all about us. That said I just don't give a damn for your religion Dan. End of.

[Dan56]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

The more I talk to Dan the more mad he appears.  We go over the same ground over and over again. Quoting a book we don't believe in is not going to convince anyone of anything.  There is no evidence that god  exists, no evidence that if Jesus existed or that he was god, no evidence that the bible is anything but a bronze age collection of myths and no evidence of anything miraculous or a god inspired influence is going on. We live on the earth but this planet is no more than a speck of dust in a massive ocean of space.  It is not all about us. That said I just don't give a damn for your religion Dan. End of.

 

I'm fully aware that you believe in nothing.. I'm also aware that you demand physical evidence as confirmation of God.. The book that I believe testifies of that physical evidence embodied in Christ, sorry you missed it. I'm not mad about anything, I'm just convinced that the proof you demand will come. Jesus said that some people would not believe even with miracles and evidence (Luke 16:31), so I consider you a prophecy come true. Understand that if you believed as I do, you would not be angry with people like yourself, but rather feel sorry for them. A lost soul is a tragedy.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Dan56

[RevBogovac]

On 1/13/2021 at 1:43 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

The question of God's existence, is both meaningless and futile.  A god which can not be demonstrated to exist, is irrelevant and meaningless.  

 

This is the way to end foolish arguments about faith and belief.

 

 

 

 

 

23 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

 

Please let me help you, Dan; there is a big (huge) difference between past, present and future tense here. Demonstrable means: able to be proved.

 

So Dan; what can be done, repeatedly (or as scientists tend to say: verifiably), to demonstrate your god exists?

 

9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). God is not a science experiment, nor can science demonstrate God, let alone prove He exist. You can't verify a spiritual entity by physical observation or experimentation. God's existence is demonstrated by all that exist, of which science has no provable answer for. Science can't create anything, it can only discover what has always been here. [...]

 

 

Thank you for confirming that since your god can not be demonstrated to exist the question of your god's existence is both meaningless and futile. It is simply irrelevant.

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

5 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I'm fully aware that you believe in nothing.. I'm also aware that you demand physical evidence as confirmation of God.. The book that I believe testifies of that physical evidence embodied in Christ, sorry you missed it. I'm not mad about anything, I'm just convinced that the proof you demand will come. Jesus said that some people would not believe even with miracles and evidence (Luke 16:31), so I consider you a prophecy come true. Understand that if you believed as I do, you would not be angry with people like yourself, but rather feel sorry for them. A lost soul is a tragedy.

 

 

I was starting to forget why arguing with you was so pointless.  Thank you for reminding me.

 

 

 

[Pete]

5 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I'm fully aware that you believe in nothing.. I'm also aware that you demand physical evidence as confirmation of God.. The book that I believe testifies of that physical evidence embodied in Christ, sorry you missed it. I'm not mad about anything, I'm just convinced that the proof you demand will come. Jesus said that some people would not believe even with miracles and evidence (Luke 16:31), so I consider you a prophecy come true. Understand that if you believed as I do, you would not be angry with people like yourself, but rather feel sorry for them. A lost soul is a tragedy.

That is the point. There are no miracles or evidence. We just have a collection of very dubious bronze age scripts that have been highly edited and synthesized through the ages. Beyond that there is nothing. Nothing that distinguishes it from other scripts from the time.

I put it to you, it is you that believes in nothing but an old myth.

You say I believe in nothing but I do. I believe in science and humanity. I believe that far from original sin as you say mankind is centrally good but that goodness is distorted by the hardships and experiences of this life. I don't believe that only a few go to some mystical heaven. For me if there was another life I would want everyone to get the chance. However, I see no evidence of a second life and therefore that belief is based on a myth.

I believe we and the rest of animal kind is all there is to this life and we make the most of that because one day it and this earth will be no more.

 

[cuchulain]

20 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). God is not a science experiment, nor can science demonstrate God, let alone prove He exist. You can't verify a spiritual entity by physical observation or experimentation. God's existence is demonstrated by all that exist, of which science has no provable answer for. Science can't create anything, it can only discover what has always been here.

 

 

I agree with your last 3 words

Your computer was created by science.  Tell you what.  You don't believe in anything not created by God?  Do us a favor and stop using it

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

14 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

Your computer was created by science.  Tell you what.  You don't believe in anything not created by God?  Do us a favor and stop using it

 

God who created the Universe and everything in it -- can't create anything that people make.  Not a book.  Not a boat.  Not a building.

 

How strange.  It's almost as though God didn't exist.

 

😃

[RevBogovac]

36 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

Your computer was created by science.  Tell you what.  You don't believe in anything not created by God?  Do us a favor and stop using it

 

I tried putting that notion up...

 

On 1/11/2021 at 6:34 PM, RevBogovac said:

[...] One must - at least - admire the irony in you being able to use the wonderful things science has brought us to spread you "opinion" on what's knowable...

 

But Dan's stayed in character:

 

On 1/12/2021 at 5:59 AM, Dan56 said:

[...] Yes, the Lord works in mysterious ways.

 

[Dan56]

19 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Thank you for confirming that since your god can not be demonstrated to exist the question of your god's existence is both meaningless and futile. It is simply irrelevant.

 

 

God was demonstrated and revealed in Christ.. Unfortunately, that's all He's going to do, and it was more than enough.

 

14 hours ago, Pete said:

You say I believe in nothing but I do. I believe in science and humanity. I believe that far from original sin as you say mankind is centrally good but that goodness is distorted by the hardships and experiences of this life. I don't believe that only a few go to some mystical heaven. For me if there was another life I would want everyone to get the chance. However, I see no evidence of a second life and therefore that belief is based on a myth.

I believe we and the rest of animal kind is all there is to this life and we make the most of that because one day it and this earth will be no more.

 

 

When I say that you believe in nothing, I'm referring to nothing divine or spiritual. And everyone does get a chance for eternal life (John 3:16). Belief is a choice that we all make, you have chosen to believe in man (science) and I've chosen God.

 

8 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Your computer was created by science.  Tell you what.  You don't believe in anything not created by God?  Do us a favor and stop using it

 

Man has discovered and invented things, but he's created nothing.

 

8 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

God who created the Universe and everything in it -- can't create anything that people make.  Not a book.  Not a boat.  Not a building.

 

How strange.  It's almost as though God didn't exist

 

Why would God create what we can make? He's given us the raw materials but expects us to do the work.