Interesting


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24 minutes ago, Seeker said:

My point was that one trend is "everything is grey" and the other is "everything is black or white".

 

I agree that both trends have been around since the year dot, but I'm seeing both turned up to 11 recently.

 

 

I see that in a more cyclical or wave pattern. This "tango" has also been around for god know how long. Just read the dialogues from the ancient Greek philosophers or the transcripts of Ancient Roman senate debates... nothing new, just rehashed. (Or did you think Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Duterte et al. actually invented this whole theatre?) 

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3 hours ago, Seeker said:

My point was that one trend is "everything is grey" and the other is "everything is black or white".

 

I agree that both trends have been around since the year dot, but I'm seeing both turned up to 11 recently.

 

 

 

Sometimes, people go with grey, because they don't want to argue.

:mellow:

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

I see that in a more cyclical or wave pattern. This "tango" has also been around for god know how long. Just read the dialogues from the ancient Greek philosophers or the transcripts of Ancient Roman senate debates... nothing new, just rehashed. (Or did you think Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Duterte et al. actually invented this whole theatre?) 

 

Of course not, but having followed politics for 45 years I would say that the professionals are a bit worse, but the general public has become much more partisan.

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On 3/31/2020 at 11:00 PM, RabbiO said:

Is the sentence supposed to read "Judaism and Islam rely too much on the enforcement of brutal rules and therefore they diminish themselves?

As always, I ask for a reason.

I doubt you will return Rabbio as you usually pop in and then disappear.  As I see it there is brutality in the law. It is being promoted as gods law and that it is hallowed.  Now you may disagree but burning wayward daughters of priests, killing none virgin brides, killing your own children because they have differing religion or have been abusive to their parents, stoning gay people, slaughtering neighbouring towns because someone from that town preached a differing religion, and I could go on. Whether you do that or not nowadays is not the point as it is still described as gods perfect law. It is brutal and I make no apology for that.

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  • 2 months later...
On 3/17/2020 at 5:20 PM, Pete said:

 

 

Thanks Pete, I just shared that with my Bible study group. We are current going through Matthew and that exact question actually came up, "How can the Jews NOT see that Jesus is the subject of Isaiah 53?" I simply suggested reading it in context, but what do I know. I like how he walks through it. And I also like how he addresses the multitude of "prophesies" that Jesus allegedly fulfills that are at best allusions.

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On 3/17/2020 at 5:20 PM, Pete said:

 

I have a couple thoughts on that.

 

1) There is more than one person(s) that is(are) referred to as the "servant" or suffering servant. It is a knee jerk to assume it is always referring to one of them; context dictates. In the clip above it seem to be assumed the nation of Israel is the servant Isaiah is talking about.

 

2) I can think of at least three places (Isaiah 53; Isaiah 14; and Ezekiel 28) where the prophet (or God speaking through the prophet) starts talking to a king or person but then the dialogue changes so drastically that at some point it is no longer reasonable to understand that the message is to the person being addressed; like its not even possible. I think that is what is going on here.

 

Also, the issue of the "proof texting' done by the new testament writers of old testament writings that are not contexted or taken in context. They call them "prophecies" and that should be clarified. But asActs 4 mentions they were "uneducated and untrained" men, so why should that be any surprise.

 

These "prophesies" are more like types and shadows than prophesies, but none the less, legit references. Think about the times we have all picked up the BIble and just read one line and God spoke to us through that one line with no regard for context. Think about when you hear a song and one line sticks in your head. Think of when you are speaking with your wife or your brother and one thing they say is powerful and its like God is talking to you. I think its like that.

 

Its no excuse for lazy preachers and Bible study leaders to take scripture out of context continually and that be the only exegesis they do, but it is a legit way that God speaks to his people through His Word.

 

I agree with the Rabbi that the old testament in context would not lead to a "Christological" conclusion. But, look from Christ backward, and the sheer volume of these statements and partial statements that fit Christ is staggering. You could not do that if you tried. And, if the Orthodox Jews want to get all upset about the Christology proof texting is done by "uneducated and untrained" BUT HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRED New Testament writers, but say nothing about the Kabbalah esoteric high jacking of the text, or the bizarre "Torah Code" alleged prophesies, then I guess they are entitled.

 

I can tell you this, I have NO INTEREST in getting in between two Jews arguing over Scripture. I mean, look how angry they get, and how Jesus would pit them against each other. I'm a gentile and I don't belong in that holy war.

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