Do They Really Believe That?

[Pete]

9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

That's was a good debate, Kent Hovind clearly humiliated the young professor Dave and articulately explained everything that I've been trying to pound through your heads forever.

The good professor thinks we all came from rocks, but admitted that he's absolutely clueless as to how that first living cell magically came to life.. But it certainly couldn't have been Intelligent Design because you all have concluded that without evidence, creationism is garbage..

Yeah! Sorry we didn't swallow your delusion and start believing in invisible beings without any evidence. Science looks at what does the visable evidence teach us and not what does bronze age man think. Science teaches to look further than myth and myth teaches us to look no further and places a blind fold over any further enquiry. Myth is for those who want simple answers and someone else to do their thinking for them. Science teaches to study the evidence and ask what does that teach us. 

I am sorry but if your faith was not so wrapped up in culture and you alone believed what you believe then I think you would be the study of a psychiatrist. 

The Earth is only 4000 years old. What a joke. The geological stratums of the earth took many thousands and millions of years to form. You burn coal and use oil then you are using substances that come from ancient plant life and would take more than 4000 of years to form and bury itself so deep. Finding shells on high hills tops also would of taken thousands of years form the land to rise from the sea by the movements of the earth's plates. No.Dan what your teaching is not science and is illusionary.

It seems fundamentalism has not moved on from the persecution of early scientists who said that the earth is not the centre of the universe and stars and planets don't all rotate around the earth.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Pete
Addition

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Yeah! Sorry we didn't swallow your delusion and start believing in invisible beings without any evidence. Science looks at what does the visable evidence teach us and not what does bronze age man think. Science teaches to look further than myth and myth teaches us to look no further and places a blind fold over any further enquiry. Myth is for those who want simple answers and someone else to do their thinking for them. Science teaches to study the evidence and ask what does that teach us. 

I am sorry but if your faith was not so wrapped up in culture and you alone believed what you believe then I think you would be the study of a psychiatrist. 

The Earth is only 4000 years old. What a joke. The geological stratums of the earth took many thousands and millions of years to form. You burn coal and use oil then you are using substances that come from ancient plant life and would take more than 4000 of years to form and bury itself so deep. Finding shells on high hills tops also would of taken thousands of years form the land to rise from the sea by the movements of the earth's plates. No.Dan what your teaching is not science and is illusionary.

It seems fundamentalism has not moved on from the persecution of early scientists who said that the earth is not the centre of the universe and stars and planets don't all rotate around the earth.

 

According to the Bishop Usher calculations; the Creation began in 4004 B.C.  Just over 6,000 years.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Dan56]

5 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Yes, because he's a scientist and a scientific open mind admits when he does not know and looks further for real answers. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever for a "creator". There is a lot of proof for evolution on the other hand.

 

So, again, if a god/creator has absolutely no presence/consequences in the perceptible/existing world his (so called "proof" of) "existence" becomes totally irrelevant.

 

(And I'm not even going into the fact that you so lightly step over your own sacred book [Genesis in this particular case] where there is no mention of this process, but I'm sure you have a loophole for that one too...)

 

The professor had a very closed mind in my opinion. He refused to hear common sense. Creationism could be the real answer, the problem is that science can't study a spiritual being. As was stated, common ancestry could also equate to common design. Your right, science doesn't know, but its also not interested in real answers. 

 

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Yeah! Sorry we didn't swallow your delusion and start believing in invisible beings without any evidence. Science looks at what does the visable evidence teach us and not what does bronze age man think. Science teaches to look further than myth and myth teaches us to look no further and places a blind fold over any further enquiry. Myth is for those who want simple answers and someone else to do their thinking for them. Science teaches to study the evidence and ask what does that teach us. 

I am sorry but if your faith was not so wrapped up in culture and you alone believed what you believe then I think you would be the study of a psychiatrist. 

The Earth is only 4000 years old. What a joke. The geological stratums of the earth took many thousands and millions of years to form. You burn coal and use oil then you are using substances that come from ancient plant life and would take more than 4000 of years to form and bury itself so deep. Finding shells on high hills tops also would of taken thousands of years form the land to rise from the sea by the movements of the earth's plates. No.Dan what your teaching is not science and is illusionary.

It seems fundamentalism has not moved on from the persecution of early scientists who said that the earth is not the centre of the universe and stars and planets don't all rotate around the earth.

 

You believe that you descended from rocks and you think I'd be an interesting psychiatric study? Wow! Faith is biblical, its not wrapped-up in culture. I agree that science looks at whats visible, that's precisely why they have no answers to the origin of life, and they never will. 

 

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

According to the Bishop Usher calculations; the Creation began in 4004 B.C.  Just over 6,000 years.

 

 

I've stated many times that I don't believe in the young earth theory myself, nor does the bible date the age of the earth. I believe Genesis is a description of re-establishing an earth that existed +millions of year before. That's the gap between verse 1 & 2. 

[Pete]

Dan, tell  us another one. 🤣😅🤪

There is point I cannot take your insights seriously.  Science has lots of things I have never seen. Such as atoms, quarks, and electrons. I believe them because I can see their interactions but there is no such evidence for creationism or your god. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

From Aaron Ra.

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Earth is not the center of everything.     

 

 

 

[RevBogovac]

19 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

The professor had a very closed mind in my opinion. He refused to hear common sense. Creationism could be the real answer, the problem is that science can't study a spiritual being. As was stated, common ancestry could also equate to common design. Your right, science doesn't know, but its also not interested in real answers. 

 

 

You believe that you descended from rocks and you think I'd be an interesting psychiatric study? Wow! Faith is biblical, its not wrapped-up in culture. I agree that science looks at whats visible, that's precisely why they have no answers to the origin of life, and they never will. 

 

 

I've stated many times that I don't believe in the young earth theory myself, nor does the bible date the age of the earth. I believe Genesis is a description of re-establishing an earth that existed +millions of year before. That's the gap between verse 1 & 2. 

 

 

Yes, because the professor actually has reviewed the scientific evidence and based on that (lack of) evidence dismissed creationism.

 

Aren't we all "from the dust" according to your holy book...?

 

You really are making it up as you go along; the first five verses take ONE day, according to the book at least... you either take the whole book literally or you don't.

[Dan56]

15 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Yes, because the professor actually has reviewed the scientific evidence and based on that (lack of) evidence dismissed creationism.

 

Aren't we all "from the dust" according to your holy book...?

 

You really are making it up as you go along; the first five verses take ONE day, according to the book at least... you either take the whole book literally or you don't.

 

Dismissing something as an impossibility because you can't find observable evidence to prove it is biased. But I understand that science & spirituality don't mix. "The basis of Creationism is a hypothesis which, because of its supernatural nature, cannot be disproved at all. It is an unrefutable hypothesis. The supernatural explanation cannot be tested. This also places Creationism outside of science, as science is based on testable hypotheses".

 

Yes, but the difference is that Man did not become a living soul until God breathed life into him (Genesis 2:7). That's what science has no answer for, and science cannot replicate.

 

No, I'm not making it up, I just interpret it differently than most Christian novice.

The bible doesn't say how old the earth is. Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth,". It doesn't say when the beginning was, and note that verse one ends with a period, not a comma.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form and void" "Was" is the wrong English word here, there is no 'was' in Hebrew. The Massorah renders it "hayah" (Strong's Concordance ref #1961). Hayah means; "to become or came to pass". So verse 2 should read that "The earth became void and without form". So millions or billions of years could have passed between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis.

Some believe (myself included) that there are 3 earth ages. The first age is past, we are in the second age, and the third is yet to come. God completely annihilated and destroyed the first earth age, dinosaurs and all after Satan's rebellion (2 Peter 3:5-7 and Jeremiah 4:19-28). Note that in Genesis 1:28, God told them to "Replenish the earth", suggesting that it was inhabited before.

So imo, God did not create the world void and empty, it became that way after the katabole. Then God formed it to be inhabited by mankind (Isaiah 45:18), but only after Satan got 1/3 of the angels to rebel in that first earth age (Rev 12)  Many Christians don't accept this interpretation, but the time gap between the first and second verses in Genesis answers a lot of questions and makes sense to me... jmo

[RevBogovac]

6 hours ago, Dan56 said:

[...]

 

In short; yes, you actually believe that unfounded load of crap... good for you. And another point for apatheism; a so-called god that has absolutely no consequence in the real world is, by very definition, irrelevant. And now back to the real world.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

 

In short; yes, you actually believe that unfounded load of crap... good for you. And another point for apatheism; a so-called god that has absolutely no consequence in the real world is, by very definition, irrelevant. And now back to the real world.

 

Yes.  As Apatheists, we have nothing to argue about. 

 

God simply doesn't matter.     

 

No arguments about faith.      

 

No arguments about knowledge.      

 

Even the question doesn't matter.      

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

I am not interested Dan. I know you believe these things but I cannot help but think that considering the lengths you go to explain and try to make sense of it the more I think your saying that if this is your gods word then god  has a real communication problem and when you compare gen 1 to gen 2 there are real problems with days. Does your God have dementia and is he just confabulating. 

[Dan56]

7 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

In short; yes, you actually believe that unfounded load of crap... good for you. And another point for apatheism; a so-called god that has absolutely no consequence in the real world is, by very definition, irrelevant. And now back to the real world.

 

Yes I believe it, but you go on believing that your distant ancestors magically evolved from a pile of rocks, it seems just as credulous & gullible for anyone to believe that unfounded and unproven load of crap.

 

6 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Yes.  As Apatheists, we have nothing to argue about. 

 

God simply doesn't matter.     

 

No arguments about faith.      

 

No arguments about knowledge.      

 

Even the question doesn't matter.      

 

 

As Apatheist, you've accepted that you know nothing, so of course you have nothing to argue about. No hope, no purpose, no meaning, no knowledge, no destiny, no answers, or even the slightest desire to know anything. Kind of a sad way to go through life, I can't imagine your content with it.

 

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I am not interested Dan. I know you believe these things but I cannot help but think that considering the lengths you go to explain and try to make sense of it the more I think your saying that if this is your gods word then god  has a real communication problem and when you compare gen 1 to gen 2 there are real problems with days. Does your God have dementia and is he just confabulating. 

 

That's the sad part. The bible instructs people to search (study) the scriptures, if you earnestly knock, it will be opened-up to you. But knocking requires a little effort. No, God does not have dementia, people are just too lazy to try and understand, or they just don't care. I could explain the 'days' in Genesis 1&2, but it would likely be a waste of time. It makes sense to me because I understand it, but a person has got to have a serious desire to comprehend it. 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

21 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

Yes I believe it, but you go on believing that your distant ancestors magically evolved from a pile of rocks, it seems just as credulous & gullible for anyone to believe that unfounded and unproven load of crap.

 

 

As Apatheist, you've accepted that you know nothing, so of course you have nothing to argue about. No hope, no purpose, no meaning, no knowledge, no destiny, no answers, or even the slightest desire to know anything. Kind of a sad way to go through life, I can't imagine your content with it.

 

 

That's the sad part. The bible instructs people to search (study) the scriptures, if you earnestly knock, it will be opened-up to you. But knocking requires a little effort. No, God does not have dementia, people are just too lazy to try and understand, or they just don't care. I could explain the 'days' in Genesis 1&2, but it would likely be a waste of time. It makes sense to me because I understand it, but a person has got to have a serious desire to comprehend it. 

 

 

 

You are still confused by domain.

 

Agnostics don't know.

 

Atheists don't believe.

 

Apatheists don't care.

 

Come on, Dan.  It's not that complicated.     

 

 

 

When you learn to hear what I'm saying -- instead of what you think I'm saying -- It will be much easier to understand.      

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

 

That's the sad part. The bible instructs people to search (study) the scriptures, if you earnestly knock, it will be opened-up to you. But knocking requires a little effort. No, God does not have dementia, people are just too lazy to try and understand, or they just don't care. I could explain the 'days' in Genesis 1&2, but it would likely be a waste of time. It makes sense to me because I understand it, but a person has got to have a serious desire to comprehend it. 

 

 

Sad for who. I have listened to your torturous arguments and it has led me from liberal Christian and on to agnosticism and more closer to fully fledged atheist. I find your viewpoints foolish and uneducated and even arrogant.  I am now not interested. There comes a time when banging my head against a brick wall of stupid arguments that it is a relief to stop. Do what the bible says and kick your heels and wipe the dust from your feet and bother someone else and make a few more agnostics. Enough!

Edited February 6, 2020 by Pete

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

33 minutes ago, Pete said:

Sad for who. I have listened to your torturous arguments and it has led me from liberal Christian and on to agnosticism and more closer to fully fledged atheist. I find your viewpoints foolish and uneducated and even arrogant.  I am now not interested. There comes a time when banging my head against a brick wall of stupid arguments that it is a relief to stop. Do what the bible says and kick your heels and wipe the dust from your feet and bother someone else and make a few more agnostics. Enough!

 

 

Yes.  The arguments never stop.  Time to disengage.       

 

 

Proverbs 26:11

As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

 

It is time to let go of Scripture and Faith and other childish things.      

 

1 Corinthians 13:11

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan56]

4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Agnostics don't know.

 

Atheists don't believe.

 

Apatheists don't care.

 

Come on, Dan.  It's not that complicated. 

 

 

That's pretty much what I've said 100 times. And I agree, people who believe in nothing aren't complicated at all. All you can do is attack what others believe because you have no answers of your own. You can't prove false what you demand I prove is true. You have no answers to life's most challenging questions, while my belief answers all of those questions. That's why your always saying "I'm done".. And your right, you have nothing further to offer, your science is a dead-end street, and you don't care because you have nothing to care about. You think what i believe is hideous, but what you believe is an enigma.. "I don't care" is the end argument of a frustrated person.

 

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Sad for who. I have listened to your torturous arguments and it has led me from liberal Christian and on to agnosticism and more closer to fully fledged atheist. I find your viewpoints foolish and uneducated and even arrogant.  I am now not interested. There comes a time when banging my head against a brick wall of stupid arguments that it is a relief to stop. Do what the bible says and kick your heels and wipe the dust from your feet and bother someone else and make a few more agnostics. Enough!

 

You know, I've also listened to many of your boring arguments too, and they have given me more faith than ever. I find your views empty in substance and void of meaning. I've never seen people who know absolutely nothing,  while simultaneously proclaiming to be absolutely right, i.e; you have no idea how you got here, but your certain you weren't created? I have an argument, you don't, and that's what your really tired of.. No one made you Agnostic, an atheist, or whatever you'll be tomorrow, its always an individual choice. What's sad is that your incapable of believing in anything, your only faith is in yourself, and I'm guessing that's got to be a pretty depressing state of mind?

 

Neither of you need to respond. There's really nothing to debate, I simply state what I believe and you get upset. Its puzzling why that is so? 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

That's pretty much what I've said 100 times. And I agree, people who believe in nothing aren't complicated at all. All you can do is attack what others believe because you have no answers of your own. You can't prove false what you demand I prove is true. You have no answers to life's most challenging questions, while my belief answers all of those questions. That's why your always saying "I'm done".. And your right, you have nothing further to offer, your science is a dead-end street, and you don't care because you have nothing to care about. You think what i believe is hideous, but what you believe is an enigma.. "I don't care" is the end argument of a frustrated person.

 

 

You know, I've also listened to many of your boring arguments too, and they have given me more faith than ever. I find your views empty in substance and void of meaning. I've never seen people who know absolutely nothing,  while simultaneously proclaiming to be absolutely right, i.e; you have no idea how you got here, but your certain you weren't created? I have an argument, you don't, and that's what your really tired of.. No one made you Agnostic, an atheist, or whatever you'll be tomorrow, its always an individual choice. What's sad is that your incapable of believing in anything, your only faith is in yourself, and I'm guessing that's got to be a pretty depressing state of mind?

 

Neither of you need to respond. There's really nothing to debate, I simply state what I believe and you get upset. Its puzzling why that is so? 

 

 

 

Just so.     

 

 

 

 

[cuchulain]

9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

That's pretty much what I've said 100 times. And I agree, people who believe in nothing aren't complicated at all. All you can do is attack what others believe because you have no answers of your own. You can't prove false what you demand I prove is true. You have no answers to life's most challenging questions, while my belief answers all of those questions. That's why your always saying "I'm done".. And your right, you have nothing further to offer, your science is a dead-end street, and you don't care because you have nothing to care about. You think what i believe is hideous, but what you believe is an enigma.. "I don't care" is the end argument of a frustrated person.

 

 

You know, I've also listened to many of your boring arguments too, and they have given me more faith than ever. I find your views empty in substance and void of meaning. I've never seen people who know absolutely nothing,  while simultaneously proclaiming to be absolutely right, i.e; you have no idea how you got here, but your certain you weren't created? I have an argument, you don't, and that's what your really tired of.. No one made you Agnostic, an atheist, or whatever you'll be tomorrow, its always an individual choice. What's sad is that your incapable of believing in anything, your only faith is in yourself, and I'm guessing that's got to be a pretty depressing state of mind?

 

Neither of you need to respond. There's really nothing to debate, I simply state what I believe and you get upset. Its puzzling why that is so? 

Hey Dan.  I found these magic silver tablets in the woods the other day and they said that Christianity is full of it.  They explained exactly how your wrong and I am right.  They prove it.  

They also said that I can't show anyone because you have to take it on faith, but they exist.  Trust me.  

Now, since you can't disprove it, I demand you believe.

 

See how stupid that sounds?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

Hey Dan.  I found these magic silver tablets in the woods the other day and they said that Christianity is full of it.  They explained exactly how your wrong and I am right.  They prove it.  

They also said that I can't show anyone because you have to take it on faith, but they exist.  Trust me.  

Now, since you can't disprove it, I demand you believe.

 

See how stupid that sounds?

 

 

 

It's just Dan, pushing our buttons, looking for an argument.