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Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Truth vs Make-Believe

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On 1/18/2020 at 5:17 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Truth vs Make-Believe

 

 

 

It's funny but it is not only religion that will fight fact. I studied NLP and hypnotherapy and there is this thing called self limiting beliefs. This is having a belief about ones limitations and holds one back from progress. I remember someone who also studied it, ask me why I had not cured someone with severe dementia using psychotherapuetic NLP. I pointed out that no one has found a psychotherapy that puts back the brain cells they had lost from dementia and without that psychotherapy could not help. Memories were often fleeting and remembering that they had seen me a few moments before had been forgotten. It is totally tragic. With that, my fellow student became cross and said it was my self limiting beliefs that was at fault. He just could not see the limitation that a reality check would bring that was beyond the psychotherapy. He wanted to believe he had the answer to everything and for him it was as a religion.

i found this insistence in a number of approaches that people had got excited about. You must believe something to make it real and happen. My usual approach was to say you can believe you can fly all you want but I still don't recommend jumping off high buildings. Some reality checks can be fatal if not painful.

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3 hours ago, Pete said:

It's funny but it is not only religion that will fight fact. I studied NLP and hypnotherapy and there is this thing called self limiting beliefs. This is having a belief about ones limitations and holds one back from progress. I remember someone who also studied it, ask me why I had not cured someone with severe dementia using psychotherapuetic NLP. I pointed out that no one has found a psychotherapy that puts back the brain cells they had lost from dementia and without that psychotherapy could not help. Memories were often fleeting and remembering that they had seen me a few moments before had been forgotten. It is totally tragic. With that, my fellow student became cross and said it was my self limiting beliefs that was at fault. He just could not see the limitation that a reality check would bring that was beyond the psychotherapy. He wanted to believe he had the answer to everything and for him it was as a religion.

i found this insistence in a number of approaches that people had got excited about. You must believe something to make it real and happen. My usual approach was to say you can believe you can fly all you want but I still don't recommend jumping off high buildings. Some reality checks can be fatal if not painful.

What you mention goes to the core of what fundamental Christians rely upon. "When you ask, believe that you have received it, then you shall have it." Therefore, if you didn't get it, either your belief wasn't strong enough, or God, in His wisdom, knew that you shouldn't have or didn't need it. So, your argument was counter to his belief, not because it was factual, but because it was against his faith. (Assuming, of course, this was the case.) 

Edited by Key
grammar

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13 hours ago, Key said:

What you mention goes to the core of what fundamental Christians rely upon. "When you ask, believe that you have received it, then you shall have it." Therefore, if you didn't get it, either your belief wasn't strong enough, or God, in His wisdom, knew that you shouldn't have or didn't need it. So, your argument was counter to his belief, not because it was factual, but because it was against his faith. (Assuming, of course, this was the case.) 

 

The most extreme version we can see through the so called "prosperity gospel"... even reality checks don't stick with people who have that world view... unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

 

The most extreme version we can see through the so called "prosperity gospel"... even reality checks don't stick with people who have that world view... unfortunately.

 

 

The Prosperity Gospel has a simple premise.  Wealth is a display of God's favor.  That means

  • the rich are favored by God.
  • the poor are getting what they deserve.

Beware of shepherds who enjoy the taste of mutton.

  • Psalm 23:  "The Lord is my shepherd........"

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

 

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On 1/21/2020 at 7:34 PM, Key said:

What you mention goes to the core of what fundamental Christians rely upon. "When you ask, believe that you have received it, then you shall have it." Therefore, if you didn't get it, either your belief wasn't strong enough, or God, in His wisdom, knew that you shouldn't have or didn't need it. So, your argument was counter to his belief, not because it was factual, but because it was against his faith. (Assuming, of course, this was the case.) 

When I was a child of two, I had poliomylites.  It left me with some paralysis.  The church said the reason I was still paralyzed in some muscles is because my parents did not believe strongly enough. It mattered little that the minister could not heal me either. Madness.

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24 minutes ago, Pete said:

When I was a child of two, I had poliomylites.  It left me with some paralysis.  The church said the reason I was still paralyzed in some muscles is because my parents did not believe strongly enough. It mattered little that the minister could not heal me either. Madness.

 

 

Yes.  If only faith -- and prayer -- actually made a difference.  A real difference.  Alas, we are stuck with reality.

 

 

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22 hours ago, Pete said:

When I was a child of two, I had poliomylites.  It left me with some paralysis.  The church said the reason I was still paralyzed in some muscles is because my parents did not believe strongly enough. It mattered little that the minister could not heal me either. Madness.

 

"Prosperity gospel" at it's "best"... 

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How horrible would the world be if prayer worked?  I mean, biblical god is a pretty demented being.  "please god let that lady who cut me off in traffic die horribly" would likely get a yes from the twisted being.

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49 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

How horrible would the world be if prayer worked?  I mean, biblical god is a pretty demented being.  "please god let that lady who cut me off in traffic die horribly" would likely get a yes from the twisted being.

 

 

Now that you mention it -- yes.   

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On 1/23/2020 at 5:51 AM, Pete said:

When I was a child of two, I had poliomylites.  It left me with some paralysis.  The church said the reason I was still paralyzed in some muscles is because my parents did not believe strongly enough. It mattered little that the minister could not heal me either. Madness.

Horrible. True extreme of what faith can do. Yes, it's madness.

Such a shame that a faith would render its followers to be living back in the middle ages, before science could develop more effective medicine. Who really wants to live like that?

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5 hours ago, Key said:

Horrible. True extreme of what faith can do. Yes, it's madness.

Such a shame that a faith would render its followers to be living back in the middle ages, before science could develop more effective medicine. Who really wants to live like that?

 

I take people at their word.  Who wants this?  They are Legion.    :D  

 

And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
 
:D   
 
 

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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