If the gods (small g) were proven to be true.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

This might not be the best place for this thread.

 

We started with a thread -- If Christianity were proven to be true.

 

That gave birth to a spin off.  If God were proven to exist.

 

Placing a thread about the gods in this section, instead of the Pagan area, doesn't seem right.  Still, it is a spin off from -- If God were proven to exist.  I thought we should keep the spin offs together.

 

Besides.  The followers of Monotheism like to pretend that the old gods have died.  Or gone away.  No.  They are with us yet.  Perhaps the old gods deserve a section within Monotheism.  Through it all -- they persist and refuse to go away -- or make room.               

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RevBogovac]

This would then call for the definition of a god first....

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

This would then call for the definition of a god first....

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.  It would.

 

For years on this board, I have been trying to get even a working definition of God.  The word has become empty of meaning.  God is Love.  God is the ultimate mystery.  God as metaphor.  Etc.

 

Of course, there are the basic divisions.  There is the Christian Trinity.  The strict Monotheism of Judaism and Islam.  The God of Hinduism -- rather complicated.

 

The modern abstractions of Deism and Pantheism.

 

The deeper abstraction of Taoism.  It's modern spin off -- The Force

 

 

 

 

You want to define a god -- small g.

 

There are different ways to go.

• Literal gods that have actual, independent existence.  That includes hybrids, like Hercules.
• personifications of the forces that they represent.
• Thought Forms.  They began as ideas.  Now, they exist.

The various entities from the various mythologies.  Egyptian, Greek, Norse, Hindu, Buddhist, Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, etc. etc. etc.  

 

Other categories -- off the top of my head.

• elementals, jin, etc.
• wee folk
• brownies, fairies, pixies, elves, leprecauns, etc.
• Bodhi Satfas -- Not quite gods -- not quite Buddhas
• thought forms
• angels, demons, devils, saints, etc.
• dragons, unicorns, other creatures, etc.

 

No doubt, I have over looked plenty.  What kind of god did you want to define?

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

I only imagine Zeus waking up after a few thousand years and coming back to see if his faithful deserve reward...

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Years ago, I attended a lecture on Medicine Buddha.  The monk -- Kedem Morton -- said -- "The gods are illusory.  But if we call upon them for assistance, they will help us anyway."

 

 

 

[RevBogovac]

On 9/12/2019 at 11:57 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 [...] What kind of god did you want to define? [...]

 

Well, Wikipedia didn't help much...
 

Quote

God is a monotheist conception of the Supreme Being and principal object of faith. Gods or deities are natural or supernatural beings considered divine or sacred, depending on tradition.

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Well, Wikipedia didn't help much...
 

 

 

 

 

You have come upon a great truth.  Monotheists get all hot and bothered, by the suggestion that their God might not exist.  They can't define their God -- but of course -- their God exists.  When they argue with Atheists, they can't even say which God they are arguing over.  The exception is when they stipulate the God of the Bible.  Then it's -- that God.

 

I have not had this discussion with Pagans.

 

 

 

[Seeker]

Miriam-Webster offers:

Quote

: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship

 

specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

 

The requiring worship aspect intrigues me. I don't think that applies across all traditions. For example the Aesir were dangerous and might punish disrespect if they saw it, but AFAIK they had no need for or interest in any form of adulation.

 

[Key]

3 hours ago, Seeker said:

Miriam-Webster offers:

 

The requiring worship aspect intrigues me. I don't think that applies across all traditions. For example the Aesir were dangerous and might punish disrespect if they saw it, but AFAIK they had no need for or interest in any form of adulation.

 

As with all things written by men, some definitions may be subjective per the author, I think. As may be the case of this offering you present.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

To my understanding, it is gods that distinguish between religion and philosophy.

 

Religions have gods.  Maybe not worship, but gods.

 

Philosophies don't have gods.

 

 

 

[RevBogovac]

17 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

[...] Philosophies don't have gods.[...]

 

One of the biggest misconceptions about Buddhism (Buddha being perceived as a god).

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

One of the biggest misconceptions about Buddhism (Buddha being perceived as a god).

 

     

 

Yes.  Of course, Buddha was a man and not a god.  Still, the idea persists.

 

 

 

 

 

[LeopardBoy]

On 9/16/2019 at 6:14 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Philosophies don't have gods.

 

 

 

 

You’ll find many an ancient philosopher had quite a lot to say about gods, the nature of gods, and the relationship between mortals and gods.

 

I’ll admit that orthopraxic religions are a bit alien if one is culturally indoctrinated to view religion through a monotheistic lens influenced specifically by Christianity.  But I’ve come to view religion as “things you do” and philosophy as “things you believe.”

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, LeopardBoy said:

 

You’ll find many an ancient philosopher had quite a lot to say about gods, the nature of gods, and the relationship between mortals and gods.

 

I’ll admit that orthopraxic religions are a bit alien if one is culturally indoctrinated to view religion through a monotheistic lens influenced specifically by Christianity.  But I’ve come to view religion as “things you do” and philosophy as “things you believe.”

 

 

 

I have to disagree with you on this one.  I have been in way to many arguments, with true believers.  The Monotheistic religions are about belief, pretending to be knowledge.

 

I'm not prepared to make sweeping statements about the fathers of Greek Philosophy.  The Geometrists like Pythagorus, were describing reality in non-theistic terms.  I don't know what they taught about the gods.

 

 

 

I have it in mind that Socrates was ordered to suicide over Atheism.  Their notion of "corrupting the youth".  

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

I think deity is our ego personified and so there are as many definitions as egos.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I think deity is our ego personified and so there are as many definitions as egos.

 

 

Do you mean God or gods?

 

Do you mean literal or metaphor?

 

Do you mean objective or subjective?

 

There is also the not so small issue of culture.  Consider Pele.  The Hawaiian goddess of volcanoes.  Nobody has hot flashes like Pele.  Sometimes, the god is poetry.  Not a projection.

 

We can also reference Carl Jung.  "Father Sky" and "Mother Earth"

 

Of course, the Bible and Koran are also deeply cultural.  Is that God a cultural projection?  Yes.  A cruel and unjust culture, will project a cruel and unjust God.  This is no mere matter of individual foibles.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl