Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2019/01/14/scientists-have-established-a-link-between-brain-damage-and-religious-fundamentalism-among-vietnam-vets/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Nonreligious&utm_content=44 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevBogovac Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 Doesn't surprise me, but it's always nice when something is scientifically proven... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, RevBogovac said: Doesn't surprise me, but it's always nice when something is scientifically proven... In fairness, it's only an association at this point. Not a causal relationship. Much like the early research, linking smoking and lung cancer. Still, it has to start somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevBogovac Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 A link is a correlation, and not all correlations are causal, but there's (obviously...) a correlation. Am wondering if it's significant (and eventually... causal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 8 hours ago, RevBogovac said: A link is a correlation, and not all correlations are causal, but there's (obviously...) a correlation. Am wondering if it's significant (and eventually... causal). I think we have to be careful of how we interpret these results. To my understanding, it is not that brain damage leads to Fundamentalism. Rather, brain damage leads to rigid thinking. It is rigid thinking that leads to Fundamentalism. This can happen without brain damage. I expect that damage to the frontal lobes, does impair mental flexibility. In any event, I want to be cautious in my interpretation. This material feeds into my personal bias. I might not be fair in my understanding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevBogovac Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 I'll happily leave the interpretation to the scientists, they're much better at that... but interesting indeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchulain Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 I wonder if the founders of these religions were brain damaged and that shaped the beliefs of millions? Never know since most were anonymous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, cuchulain said: I wonder if the founders of these religions were brain damaged and that shaped the beliefs of millions? Never know since most were anonymous. There is an old line. I don't know who said it. "When we speak to God, it's called prayer. When God speaks to us, it's called Schizophrenia." St. Paul, on the road to Damascus, comes to mind. So does Mohamed. And Joseph Smith. Also, various Saints and Holy Men. Edited January 18, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBK Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 The study referenced is a slightly different approach in a relatively new research arena of liberal/conservative neuropsychology, which often uses religious conviction as a dependent variable in the experimental design. Some of the research is clearly agenda-driven, unfortunately. I can’t find the source right now but I remember a student coming into my office incensed with an empirical [and peer reviewed!] report she’d read that stated “conservatives don’t use all of their brains”. False, of course – self-identified ‘conservatives’ have been shown to use different areas to different degrees than self-identified ‘liberals’. Whether the neurophysiological activity begets conservative attitudes or simply echoes and thus perpetuates learned behaviors is unknown, and the answer may be “both” (The Jost article below provides a good summary). These are tough reads even if you have the stats and neurophys to follow them, but a look at the abstracts, introductions, and discussion sections will give you an idea of what’s going on in (reliable / professional) research in this area. They should be available via Academic Search Complete at any state’s or college library’s portal. Amodio, D. M., Jost, J. T., Master, S. L., & Yee, C. M. (2007). Neurocognitive correlates of liberalism and conservatism. Nature Neuroscience, 10(10), 1246–1247. https://doi.org/10.1038/nn1979 Inzlicht, M., McGregor, I., Hirsh, J. B., & Nash, K. (2009). Neural markers of religious conviction. Psychological Science (0956-7976), 20(3), 385–392. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-9280.2009.02305.x Jost, J., & Amodio, D. (2012). Political ideology as motivated social cognition: Behavioral and neuroscientific evidence. Motivation & Emotion, 36(1), 55–64. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11031-011-9260-7 Tritt, S. M., Peterson, J. B., Page-Gould, E., & Inzlicht, M. (2016). Ideological reactivity: Political conservatism and brain responsivity to emotional and neutral stimuli. Emotion, 16(8), 1172–1185. https://doi.org/10.1037/emo0000150.supp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) I won't pretend that I understood most of the content. Much of it went right over my head, without slowing down. To the extent that I did understand -- we have to be careful of what the study claims. That people with highly rigid thinking, tend to have similar brain dysfunction. That should apply to minds that lack flexibility, in other areas of life, besides religion. In addition, the link between rigid thinking and Fundamentalism is an "association". It is not "causal". No where is the claim made, that brain damage causes Fundamentalism. I do think, that it is self evident, that rigid thinking contributes to becoming and remaining a Fundamentalist. Again, the association is rigid mental patterns and brain damage. Not a specific belief and brain damage. Since the study does feed my personal bias, I am not the best person to defend it. Edited March 18, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevBogovac Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 11 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: [...] Since the study does feed my personal bias, I am not the best person to defend it. Nah... I think you nailed it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchulain Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 What about people that start off liberal or conservative then switch? Reminds me of douglas monroe and his forgeries on druidry. He stated the left brain is artistic and instinctive, feminine. The right is logical and male. Of course he seemed to entirely forget its one brain in one head with a corpus collosum communicating between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, cuchulain said: What about people that start off liberal or conservative then switch? Reminds me of douglas monroe and his forgeries on druidry. He stated the left brain is artistic and instinctive, feminine. The right is logical and male. Of course he seemed to entirely forget its one brain in one head with a corpus collosum communicating between. To my understanding, it is not the doctrine that matters. Only how rigid we are in following that doctrine. People can be equally rabid on both the Left and the Right. Yes, Atheists who foam when someone says -- "Have a blessed day" or "God bless you" -- are just as likely to have brain damage, as the Godly Fundamentalist. It's about being inflexible. Not what we are being inflexible about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevBogovac Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 hours ago, cuchulain said: What about people that start off liberal or conservative then switch? Reminds me of douglas monroe and his forgeries on druidry. He stated the left brain is artistic and instinctive, feminine. The right is logical and male. Of course he seemed to entirely forget its one brain in one head with a corpus collosum communicating between. Wasn't it Churchill who said: Quote A young man who isn't a socialist hasn't got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn't got a head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 46 minutes ago, RevBogovac said: Wasn't it Churchill who said: I have seen that one. I don't know who said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan56 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: To my understanding, it is not the doctrine that matters. Only how rigid we are in following that doctrine. People can be equally rabid on both the Left and the Right. Yes, Atheists who foam when someone says -- "Have a blessed day" or "God bless you" -- are just as likely to have brain damage, as the Godly Fundamentalist. It's about being inflexible. Not what we are being inflexible about. There you have it... Anyone one can be rigid or inflexible... I don't believe it insinuates brain damage, just a stubbornness not to change one's attitude or position on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchulain Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 When a brain cannot accept new information or keeps a person from accepting fact because of previous false information...it's damaged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 55 minutes ago, cuchulain said: When a brain cannot accept new information or keeps a person from accepting fact because of previous false information...it's damaged. Sorry, can't help it, but this explains Trump so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchulain Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, Key said: Sorry, can't help it, but this explains Trump so much! Agreed, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Key said: Sorry, can't help it, but this explains Trump so much! It explains a lot. Don't forget the tiny hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.