Counterfeit God - Same Name, Attributes, Rules

[zamber]

Can a god be different from another if the name, attributes, etc. are the same, so people think it is the same god? I put this in the interfaith forum because it involves people worshiping a god of a different religion. A person would think he is worshiping one god, but is really worshiping another. If someone cannot tell the difference, would it really be the same god? Except if it is not?

[Dan56]

3 hours ago, zamber said:

If someone cannot tell the difference, would it really be the same god? Except if it is not? 

 

People often get confused, especially monotheist who believe there's one supreme being, so they might assume Allah and God are the same entity. But the devil is in the details, they are completely different Beings in name and attributes. Mohammad said to seek out and kill your enemies (infidels) where ever you find them (Quran 2:191), while Jesus taught to love and pray for your enemies (Matthew 5:44). Two  diametrically opposed messages.. So imo, the differences make it impossible to confuse the real deal with a counterfeit.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 hours ago, zamber said:

Can a god be different from another if the name, attributes, etc. are the same, so people think it is the same god? I put this in the interfaith forum because it involves people worshiping a god of a different religion. A person would think he is worshiping one god, but is really worshiping another. If someone cannot tell the difference, would it really be the same god? Except if it is not?

 

 

I'm not clear on what you are asking.  Are you presuming that  both gods exist -- and their followers can't tell the difference?  Is that what you're asking?

[zamber]

I am asking, what if there are two gods with the same name and attributes, can they be two gods or are they the same god? What if one god impersonates another? What if another group of people create a false god that is a mirror image of a real one? Who are they worshiping then?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, zamber said:

I am asking, what if there are two gods with the same name and attributes, can they be two gods or are they the same god? What if one god impersonates another? What if another group of people create a false god that is a mirror image of a real one? Who are they worshiping then?

 

 

If they both exist, a war god like Mars could impersonate YHVH.  Is that what You're asking?  

 

Or do you mean that two entities, known only as God could impersonate each other?  It's pure if, but why not?

Edited July 6, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[mererdog]

I vaguely remember a Gnostic story about a violently insane god who pretends to be the creator god. I never understood what he was supposed to be getting out of the ruse, but he was described as being insane, so I suppose that's a moot point...

Edited July 6, 2018 by mererdog

[Key]

The question brings to mind a race of supposedly superior beings created for the Star Trek franchises, (starting on Next Generation, then to Voyager), and they referred to themselves only as "Q".

Now supposing there were such beings in existence, confusion might just be something of fun for them to create among us, you think?

Then again, it has also been said that Satan might impersonate God to lead some sheep astray. One explanation for this is that he was once called Lucifer, or morning star, and was a fallen angel. He was fallen because he thought himself an equal to God and had many of the same abilities before being cast out.

Many stories with as many plot points for possibilities if true.

In the end, no one will truly know which God was the true God until after they die, right?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 minutes ago, Key said:

The question brings to mind a race of supposedly superior beings created for the Star Trek franchises, (starting on Next Generation, then to Voyager), and they referred to themselves only as "Q".

Now supposing there were such beings in existence, confusion might just be something of fun for them to create among us, you think?

Then again, it has also been said that Satan might impersonate God to lead some sheep astray. One explanation for this is that he was once called Lucifer, or morning star, and was a fallen angel. He was fallen because he thought himself an equal to God and had many of the same abilities before being cast out.

Many stories with as many plot points for possibilities if true.

In the end, no one will truly know which God was the true God until after they die, right?

 

 

There are also the Satanic verses.  It seems that Mohamed decided, after the fact, that some of the verses he had been given had come from Satan.

 

 

[Key]

On 7/7/2018 at 7:22 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

There are also the Satanic verses.  It seems that Mohamed decided, after the fact, that some of the verses he had been given had come from Satan.

 

 

Which begs the question, why hasn't anyone considered how much that Mohamed proclaimed was actually lies from Satan, if he, himself, suspected some? (Actually. since I don't, nor ever have, follow Islamic history, so I don't really know if anyone ever questioned validity. But it doesn't seem like anyone has to me.)

Edited July 9, 2018 by Key
Adding thought.

[cuchulain]

I'm still stuck on the idea of proving ANY deity as real...let alone that there are multiples counterfeiting each other.

 

As an aside, I think there are myriad religions which have similarities to the point of being able to claim plagiarism in some sense, although I do not know that the actual religions did indeed "steal" from each other.  Some ideas are accepted socially to the point that they could be termed universal, I believe.  So I don't think it's an enormous stretch to conclude that multiple religions might have used the same mythological set up to express the ideas in very similar manners.  

 

I have been considering myself something of an oddball lately for the reason that I can find truth in any religion while believing in none of them, or at least while believing in none of the deities. Of course, the converse is also true in that I can find falsehood in every religion.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:20 PM, Key said:

Which begs the question, why hasn't anyone considered how much that Mohamed proclaimed was actually lies from Satan, if he, himself, suspected some? (Actually. since I don't, nor ever have, follow Islamic history, so I don't really know if anyone ever questioned validity. But it doesn't seem like anyone has to me.)



 

 

Do you remember the Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie?  This is what it was based on.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I'm still stuck on the idea of proving ANY deity as real...let alone that there are multiples counterfeiting each other.

 

As an aside, I think there are myriad religions which have similarities to the point of being able to claim plagiarism in some sense, although I do not know that the actual religions did indeed "steal" from each other.  Some ideas are accepted socially to the point that they could be termed universal, I believe.  So I don't think it's an enormous stretch to conclude that multiple religions might have used the same mythological set up to express the ideas in very similar manners.  

 

I have been considering myself something of an oddball lately for the reason that I can find truth in any religion while believing in none of them, or at least while believing in none of the deities. Of course, the converse is also true in that I can find falsehood in every religion.

 

 

There are plenty of good things in the Bible.  It requires cherry picking, but they are there.

 

 

[Key]

18 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Do you remember the Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie?  This is what it was based on.

Yes. Never personally read it. Assumed it warranted a death sentence from Muslims due to being a work of fiction. As stated in other threads, I am not up on Islam knowledge much.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, Key said:

Yes. Never personally read it. Assumed it warranted a death sentence from Muslims due to being a work of fiction. As stated in other threads, I am not up on Islam knowledge much.

 

 

What work of fiction, is worthy of the death penalty?

 

 

[Seeker]

The Bee movie script?

 

[mererdog]

11 hours ago, Seeker said:

The Bee movie script?

 

Seconded.

[Key]

On 7/17/2018 at 1:16 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

What work of fiction, is worthy of the death penalty?

 

 

Personally, I think none. But, they in the Middle East, apparently, take anything to do with Mohamed as blasphemy if it isn't how they want him portrayed, regardless of it is in the Quran, as well.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 hours ago, Key said:

Personally, I think none. But, they in the Middle East, apparently, take anything to do with Mohamed as blasphemy if it isn't how they want him portrayed, regardless of it is in the Quran, as well.

 

I never finished reading the Koran.  The parts I did read were so Biblical  in feel.  It all seemed so familiar.

 

History is a thing of sadness.  So many real deaths, commanded by works of fiction.  I can't bring myself to take sides.  It's all so horrible.  At this layer of history, the Koran is more dangerous.  The Bible had a head start.  

 

 

Back to the thread.  When we ask which God is counterfeit -- distinct from authentic -- doesn't that suggest that at least one -- or both gods -- actually exists?

 

If we are only talking about their books -- the real issue is plagerism.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I never finished reading the Koran.  The parts I did read were so Biblical  in feel.  It all seemed so familiar.

 

History is a thing of sadness.  So many real deaths, commanded by works of fiction.  I can't bring myself to take sides.  It's all so horrible.  At this layer of history, the Koran is more dangerous.  The Bible had a head start.  

 

 

Back to the thread.  When we ask which God is counterfeit -- distinct from authentic -- doesn't that suggest that at least one -- or both gods -- actually exists?

 

If we are only talking about their books -- the real issue is plagerism.

 

 

 

That's been my question.  First, shouldn't we prove ANY god is real?  I mean, they really don't care...if they aren't real.

[LeopardBoy]

On 7/5/2018 at 10:55 AM, zamber said:

Can a god be different from another if the name, attributes, etc. are the same, so people think it is the same god? I put this in the interfaith forum because it involves people worshiping a god of a different religion. A person would think he is worshiping one god, but is really worshiping another. If someone cannot tell the difference, would it really be the same god? Except if it is not?

 

This really isn’t a problem for polytheists, what with our Zeus who dwells on the mountaintop and the Zeus who dwells in the household pantry. Not to mention the Zeus of different cities, or the Zeus of foreigners who know him in their own “barbaric” tongue.