What is the tipping point ? (lessons)

[cuchulain]

I fully understand the frustration of dealing with something as part of the job, and basically being handcuffed in order to do so.  Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.  Usually both at the same time.  The situation is untenable.  We need to rethink it thoroughly and figure out a way to change the situation itself so that this type of thing doesn't happen, or at least so that if it does the key players involved are prepared with some sort of plan.  And I think the primary element of this is not including public opinion.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

32 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

I fully understand the frustration of dealing with something as part of the job, and basically being handcuffed in order to do so.  Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.  Usually both at the same time.  The situation is untenable.  We need to rethink it thoroughly and figure out a way to change the situation itself so that this type of thing doesn't happen, or at least so that if it does the key players involved are prepared with some sort of plan.  And I think the primary element of this is not including public opinion.

 

 

The general public can't be told anything.  They are all convinced that they know.  The less they actually  know, the more convinced they are.  The worst of them, are the idiot preachers, who think that God and prayer will fix anything.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Key]

15 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

The general public can't be told anything.  They are all convinced that they know.  The less they actually  know, the more convinced they are.  The worst of them, are the idiot preachers, who think that God and prayer will fix anything.

 

 

Ah, but if they believe in an all powerful entity, how could God and prayer not fix anything?

The other problem with this, is that it makes a God like a house servant the way some people act. A person makes a mess of things, then leaves it for the maid/butler to clean up.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

9 hours ago, Key said:

Ah, but if they believe in an all powerful entity, how could God and prayer not fix anything?

The other problem with this, is that it makes a God like a house servant the way some people act. A person makes a mess of things, then leaves it for the maid/butler to clean up.

 

More like their Father -- who art in Heaven.          

[cuchulain]

I liked it the way I heard it in the movie short circuit.  Draw a circle on the ground, throw up all the money and what God wants he keeps.

[VonNoble]

On 10/3/2017 at 9:42 PM, VonNoble said:

When we instruct a child when is it a lesson and when is it an

imposition of OUR view, OUR way, OUR belief?

 

When is it teaching and when is it indoctrination?

 

Culturally, do we insulate our children too much?

Are parents defining the parents success in life - in terms of the kids?  Are parents using the kids to validate that they have been successful in life - thereby defining their worth as humans in terms of how the kids turn out? 

 

von

[Brother Kaman]

22 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

 

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Brother Kaman

[cuchulain]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

 

Culturally, do we insulate our children too much?

Are parents defining the parents success in life - in terms of the kids?  Are parents using the kids to validate that they have been successful in life - thereby defining their worth as humans in terms of how the kids turn out? 

 

von

i think it's leaning towards that, especially when I take my kid to school and see the set up they have these days, and watch TV with my kid and see the cartoons about kids talking about problems instead of having conflict.  does anyone else remember transformers or g  i joe?  

i think it's a response to the escalated media coverage of violence involving kids which has always happened but was previously not as publicized, in part anyway.

[Key]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

 

Culturally, do we insulate our children too much?

Are parents defining the parents success in life - in terms of the kids?  Are parents using the kids to validate that they have been successful in life - thereby defining their worth as humans in terms of how the kids turn out? 

 

von

There was a time, I'm sure, where it was true that parents considered their children's success in life as the measuring stick of their own worth. Parent's had, and hopefully always, want better for their kids than they had for themselves as kids.

It doesn't seem as true anymore, but I'm sure it's still there. It's just the view of discipline and authority has skewed over the generations, maybe.

[mererdog]

10 hours ago, VonNoble said:

 

Culturally, do we insulate our children too much?

I think child-rearing styles tend to be heavily dependant on local and family level culture. That makes the word "we" very tricky, in context.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

When I was a teacher, I burnt out my parental urges.  There is no "we" any more.  

[mererdog]

19 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

When I was a teacher, I burnt out my parental urges. 

I don't think I ever had any. Looking back, the amount of effort I put into not having a kid is pretty staggering....

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, mererdog said:

I don't think I ever had any. Looking back, the amount of effort I put into not having a kid is pretty staggering....

 

 

But so worth it.  "No deposit, no return."

[VonNoble]

Hmmmm...I was just thinking much as I learn a bit from each interaction.... this likely true for kids?   ( I am guessing there)....I frightened myself when I thought about what I see and here in a typical day, because I adults  ought not push these images and words and negativity with such force on children.... maybe the enemie of the future is of our own making?

von

[Key]

2 hours ago, VonNoble said:

Hmmmm...I was just thinking much as I learn a bit from each interaction.... this likely true for kids?   ( I am guessing there)....I frightened myself when I thought about what I see and here in a typical day, because I adults  ought not push these images and words and negativity with such force on children.... maybe the enemie of the future is of our own making?

von

That may indeed involve the law of projection, wouldn't it? Truly scary to think about.

[mererdog]

I was in school when the Challenger shuttle exploded. They had wheeled a television into every classroom, and we were all watching it live. Even the kindergarteners. It took a long time for the principal to come over the intercom and tell the teachers to shut off the televisions. Ive talked to a lot of people around my age and this happened to pretty much all of us.

 

That experience was on my mind a lot after the initial shock of the 9/11 attacks. I cant even imagine how that news cycle effected the kids. Footage of the planes hitting the towers, or at least still shot of the towers on fire, were basically inescapable for months.

 

When I was young, I expected to die young. The news media essentially promised me that it eod happen. I was going to get murdered by a Super Predator, catch a random bullet from drive-by, or catch AIDS from a needle washed up oln the beach. These were real fears for me. The daily ritual was an hour of local news followed by an hour of national news, followed by PBS' News Hour. I definitely knew who my senator was. But I was convinced that I would die young. That conviction also seems to have been fairly common among people who are around my age. We are a generation vaguely suprised to still be breathing. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by mererdog

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, mererdog said:

I was in school when the Challenger shuttle exploded. They had wheeled a television into every classroom, and we were all watching it live. Even the kindergarteners. It took a long time for the principal to come over the intercom and tell the teachers to shut off the televisions. Ive talked to a lot of people around my age and this happened to pretty much all of us.

 

That experience was on my mind a lot after the initial shock of the 9/11 attacks. I cant even imagine how that news cycle effected the kids. Footage of the planes hitting the towers, or at least still shot of the towers on fire, were basically inescapable for months.

 

When I was young, I expected to die young. The news media essentially promised me that it eod happen. I was going to get murdered by a Super Predator, catch a random bullet from drive-by, or catch AIDS from a needle washed up oln the beach. These were real fears for me. The daily ritual was an hour of local news followed by an hour of national news, followed by PBS' News Hour. I definitely knew who my senator was. But I was convinced that I would die young. That conviction also seems to have been fairly common among people who are around my age. We are a generation vaguely suprised to still be breathing. 

 

 

It could still happen.  Just in case it doesn't, keep your plans.  If the world does not end, you will still need an income.  And food.  And a place to live.  It's the curse of uncertainty.  Things might work out.  Then what?     

[mererdog]

6 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

It's the curse of uncertainty.  

The problem is that I was not at all uncertain about it. I was convinced, and so I acted as if it were true. It made any real long term planning an impossibility. It made impulsivity and recklessness seem rational.