Man: Good, Evil, Or Undecided?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Imo, God is good, evil is a direct or indirect consequence of sin.

Really? What is it that makes God good? Is it because God said that God is good? Or because Scripture says that God is good? That is an argument based on power and power proves nothing. Is God subordinate to a principle of Goodness? Then God is not all powerful and is not God. Unless God's goodness is only opinion and can be dismissed as such -- then God is not good. ( In My Opinion) Edited November 1, 2012 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Atwater Vitki]

Poll could have used "All the above" and "Other" categories.....

I need only look as far as my own sister who has been the poster child of the "Good Christian" her entire life to know our comprehension of "God" is nowhere close to what s/he, it, whatever, really is. No one has studied deeper and harder, longer and taken every word in the Bible as gospel as she has, nor been as devout to the principles, commandments and tenets as she has. I doubt very seriously if anyone could claim to have turned every fiber of their being over to "God" as much as she has.....

...yet she has colon cancer, has lost one daughter to the grave and another daughter to drugs. Lost a son to hypocrisy, a husband to multiple strokes and death, every in-law turned against her after hubby's passing. She's basically been the reincarnation of the biblical man Job for everything that has gone wrong for her in her life, yet she still clings to the grace and glory of "God". IMHO, Job was a sissy compared to Sis. So if anyone on this Earth would be deserving of a "reward" or "grace" or any special attention from "God" it would be her.....yet she's now, as of just the other day, as a cherry on the whip cream of Life, just lost her life savings and hubby's insurance money ($46,500) to the mortgage bank for having no choice but to sell her 4bd/3ba/3gar house for $45,000 under what she owes (which is $120k under what they paid in 1998)....but is Sis crying? No, she's thankful she had the money to cover the bank and enough left over to get into a small studio apartment.

Yet, with all the spirit crushing events in my Sis's life, the winding, twisting path of my brother's world and the odd, stranger than normal reality events that have paved the road of my journey in Life I do indeed believe there is some form of Supreme Being. Even if that "being" is little more than a Collective Consciousness vibrating at such a level as to make it barely haptic to us humans.

Is "God" good? Based on personal family experience, I'd say that's highly subjective. Does "God"

care

about the humans on this bubble? I'd say that's highly subjective. Does "God" even exist in a manner as reported in the Bible, Koran or Torah? I'd say that's highly subjective.

And through it all, this Supreme Entity has proven nothing to me or many....not even if it does indeed exist. Since it has not given the slightest inkling of being good or bad, happy or sad, fer us or a'gin us, my only conclusion can be that it simply Is. There is no good or bad in the Universe, just things and circumstances that Are. Things that are in an ethereal state and things that are in a physical state. What is matter is matter, what is not matter is not matter. What is positive energy is merely one pole of opposite extremes. Everything just Is what it is and that's all it is, including the Supreme. And, as far as our puny little Hu-man minds go, we may never be sufficiently Aware to figure out this, or anything else.

Frankly, that's what I believe separates this physical realm from the ethereal realm....here, we don't have a clue or even the means to comprehend, there, we'll have the answers we need.

Blessings of Peace,

[Dan56]

Really? What is it that makes God good? Is it because God said that God is good? Or because Scripture says that God is good? That is an argument based on power and power proves nothing. Is God subordinate to a principle of Goodness? Then God is not all powerful and is not God. Unless God's goodness is only opinion and can be dismissed as such -- then God is not good. ( In My Opinion)

Is "God" good? Based on personal family experience, I'd say that's highly subjective. Does "God" care about the humans on this bubble? I'd say that's highly subjective. Does "God" even exist in a manner as reported in the Bible, Koran or Torah? I'd say that's highly subjective.

'Good' is not defined by power, but is demonstrated by deed and exist in righteousness. God being good isn't an opinion or a subordinate adherence, but a characteristic of God. But of course, the definition of what's "good" is subjective and determined differently by anyone with knowledge of good and evil. Essentially, what's right is good and what's wrong is bad. Every individual must clarify the difference for themselves, but in Christianity, Christ clarified, defined, and demonstrated good.

[Fawzo]

Christ clarified, defined, and demonstrated good.

So calling folks fools, flipping over merchants tables, labeling people as dogs and cursing fig trees is good then.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Fawzo

[Zequatanil]

Al--Rewards , if that is the way we look at it, are not in this world. Are rich people happier than poor people? Are there less diseases amongst the well to do? Do people who have more actually have more, or have less? I always tried to live with gratitude and whenever things go wrong I am reminded by a saying of my aunt`always look down never up for things are so much worse for many`.

Your sister with her attitude and gratitude is far closer to God, far more blessed in her life in many ways than most of us--especially being more so that she accepts it. If we rebel against it we add more fuel to the fire IMO.The material is simply that--material. Peace has to come from within, not without.

Once more I have to get back that we don`t know the mind of God. We also --don`t know what lives we have led, how we behaved in previous lives. All debts have to be paid, all action has a reaction

Isn`t good or bad a concept of humanity? How do we know what is good or bad especially for us. We may think it is bad, but overall it is needed for a purpose? I think everything God does is good, but we have free will to do as we will, including probably choosing certain paths before we get here--as ways and means how to proceed towards the infinite.

I think we get too tied in with the world and think it all begins and ends here--but it is only a halfway house. Everything in this life is temporary--it too shall pass be it good or bad.

blessings,

Suzanne

[Ex Nihilo]

So calling folks fools, flipping over merchants tables, labeling people as dogs and cursing fig trees is good then.

why is it a bad thing?

[Dan56]

So calling folks fools, flipping over merchants tables, labeling people as dogs and cursing fig trees is good then.

A negative occurrence does not automatically equate to something bad, reversing a bad is good. Sometimes bad is a necessity in bringing about a greater good, its like disciplining a child to create a responsible adult. If 'good' is the endpoint, then correction is good.

[Atwater Vitki]

Quetzal...at the risk of being repetitive....."...my only conclusion can be that it simply Is. There is no good or bad in the Universe, just things and circumstances that Are. Things that are in an ethereal state and things that are in a physical state."

I do truly believe my Sis's, and the many, many like her, will get their acknowledgment, there not here...wherever "there" may be. Since I believe in the cyclic theories and young/old soul concept, I firmly believe she is one of the Old Souls who, by passing through the tests put forth to her and maintaining her firm Belief will indeed not be subjected to another round in the physical realm.

If, as some believe, Angels are created from their physical experiences and Saints are sainted based on their deeds, she will most definitely become a Sainted Angel in the next round for her.....but of course one must believe in such things for that to be a reality.

~~~.*.~~~

Dan56..."Essentially, what's right is good and what's wrong is bad. Every individual must clarify the difference for themselves, but in Christianity, Christ clarified, defined, and demonstrated good. " Oh I hear ya loud and clear. By my expressing the things that have been bestowed upon my Sis that is what I was attempting to submit. That even someone who has so many, many upsets and set backs in this Life she maintains her firm Beliefs in good. I have to believe, since it is her belief, that her "reward" will not be of or on this Earth.

Don't forget, I routinely have given my support of the historical Christ and the principles and precepts he stood for and taught. I just do not support the views of the many versions of the Christian religion formed, by others, around his teachings. Earthly men created religious views, not the Christ and that is why I separate the two....the earnest Faith and Belief of the many, such as my Sis... and the dogmatic approach of many forms of zealous extremes (Westboro Baptist for example)

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

'Good' is not defined by power, but is demonstrated by deed and exist in righteousness. God being good isn't an opinion or a subordinate adherence, but a characteristic of God. But of course, the definition of what's "good" is subjective and determined differently by anyone with knowledge of good and evil. Essentially, what's right is good and what's wrong is bad. Every individual must clarify the difference for themselves, but in Christianity, Christ clarified, defined, and demonstrated good.

Or we can turn to Job for clarity. I think it was the second chapter of Job -- where Job turns to his wife and says -- "What? Should we expect good from God and not evil?"

[Fawzo]

why is it a bad thing?

I don't know, maybe we should test to find out. I'll come over your house call you a fool, your wife a dog flip over your living and dining room tables and urinate on your shrubs then you can tell me firsthand whether it was a bad thing or not

[BrDevon]

I don't know, maybe we should test to find out. I'll come over your house call you a fool, your wife a dog flip over your living and dining room tables and urinate on your shrubs then you can tell me firsthand whether it was a bad thing or not

No! Naughty alpaca!

[Fawzo]

No! Naughty alpaca!

Wait a minute the good Reverend still hasn't decided whether it is naughty or not I hope he decides soon been drinking an awful lot of liquid in preparation and not sure how much longer I can hold it in

[BrDevon]

Wait a minute the good Reverend still hasn't decided whether it is naughty or not I hope he decides soon been drinking an awful lot of liquid in preparation and not sure how much longer I can hold it in

[mererdog]

Sometimes bad is a necessity in bringing about a greater good, its like disciplining a child to create a responsible adult.

That sort of excuse can only apply to God if you assume that God is not all-powerful. Otherwise, nothing is "a necessity" for God, but merely wanted or unwanted.

If 'good' is the endpoint, then correction is good.

If the ends justify the means, there is nothing wrong with strangling a baby, provided that something good comes from it. I reject that idea, based on my conscience telling me in no uncertain terms that there is never a time when strangling a baby is not wrong. Edited November 5, 2012 by mererdog

[Dan56]

That sort of excuse can only apply to God if you assume that God is not all-powerful. Otherwise, nothing is "a necessity" for God, but merely wanted or unwanted.

If the ends justify the means, there is nothing wrong with strangling a baby, provided that something good comes from it. I reject that idea, based on my conscience telling me in no uncertain terms that there is never a time when strangling a baby is not wrong.

Its no excuse, its biblical... The necessity is for us, not God. This does not negate that God is all powerful, it simply reveals a characteristic that God possesses. Your analogy of strangling a baby is murder, its not compatible with God's correction and it certainly doesn't create a greater good.

[Fawzo]

Its no excuse, its biblical... The necessity is for us, not God. This does not negate that God is all powerful, it simply reveals a characteristic that God possesses. Your analogy of strangling a baby is murder, its not compatible with God's correction and it certainly doesn't create a greater good.

So God can have 50 children killed by she bears for calling an old bald headed man "old baldy" and yet allow Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein live long lives, because somehow it serves the greater good? I'm not buying it.

[Ex Nihilo]

So God can have 50 children killed by she bears for calling an old bald headed man "old baldy" and yet allow Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein live long lives, because somehow it serves the greater good? I'm not buying it.

Wait...just how many shebears are being benefitted?are these working single mom shebears with cubs at home? I'll have to get out my abacus and get back to you once I crunch the numbers...

[mererdog]

Its no excuse, its biblical... The necessity is for us, not God. This does not negate that God is all powerful, it simply reveals a characteristic that God possesses.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are saying here. In order for it to be necessary for God to do bad to bring about a greater good, it must be true that God cannot get the greater good without doing bad. If there is anything God cannot do, under any circumstance, God is not all-powerful. That is pretty cut and dried.

Your analogy of strangling a baby is murder, its not compatible with God's correction and it certainly doesn't create a greater good.

According to the Bible, God drowned the entire world and killed all the first-born sons of Egypt as part of His "correction." But that wasn't murder, right? Because it made a greater good? Edited November 5, 2012 by mererdog

[Dan56]

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are saying here. In order for it to be necessary for God to do bad to bring about a greater good, it must be true that God cannot get the greater good without doing bad. If there is anything God cannot do, under any circumstance, God is not all-powerful. That is pretty cut and dried. According to the Bible, God drowned the entire world and killed all the first-born sons of Egypt as part of His "correction." But that wasn't murder, right? Because it made a greater good?

Your not considering free-will, there's nothing God cannot do, but He will not force us to accept him. We were condemned to these flesh bodies to perish, endure pain, hardships, and to struggle for a season. The whole purpose is to bring about a greater good for those who accept God, and to eliminate those who don't. Those destroyed in the flood and the plagues God sent against the Pharaoh in Egypt destroyed the bad and freed the good.

[mererdog]

We were condemned to these flesh bodies to perish, endure pain, hardships, and to struggle for a season. The whole purpose is to bring about a greater good for those who accept God, and to eliminate those who don't. Those destroyed in the flood and the plagues God sent against the Pharaoh in Egypt destroyed the bad and freed the good.

If there is nothing that God cannot do, that purpose could have been served without the flood or plagues- Because God could have done it differently. That is, once again, cut and dried. To get Biblical about it, note that Pharaoh was ready to give in before the final plague, but God hardened his heart. An all-powerful God does not do what is necessary, He does what He wants. There is simply no logical way around that. Edited November 6, 2012 by mererdog