Brother Michael Sky

am I getting a little too " hermeneutical " for ya? I was killing several birds with one stone in my posting, but you don't seem to want to show us your skills.... I understand all of your high-falootin' words, Cool... I have zero Biblical Higher Edumacation.... but I'm good to go with ya.... and yet you bring up a clearly stated point made BY prof. Nestle....???? The Article shows clearly the mishandling of the text.... It clearly shows the misdirection of the text... and it clearly shows where Spong might be getting his belief from... and it also shows why it might seem so familiar to you..... does it not? you want to focus on points which would have me re-writing the post in near to it's entirety.... to avoid acknowledging that I have provided what you asked for, so we could get on with discussing YOUR problems with what Spong has to say.... you're giving me a headache Cool..... seriously.... I'm getting beginning to think you were simply trying to show off new words you learned in your Higher edumacation.... and yes it clearly gives an idea of what the text should say... are you so focused on " winning " that you cannot have a discussion? you find your irony in the most interesting of places cool....

how so, Coolhand? seems precisely stated .... you must read further to get to the point of the article... for example : and: and: and: and.... and... and... did you read it? I remember this exchange : Regardless of how many time you repeat this, it is still a weak argument with no support. shall we address this? edit: Hex, I forgive you for calling my argument weak....

wow, how much time did you spend finding that?.... their lips are moving, but they have zero understanding..... who doesn't understand the Protestant reformation? I would like to explain my views of all the points missed by it.... but you wouldn't read it..... because my previous post points them out in advance anyway.... ( that's how I know you wouldn't read it ) you're a broken record at this point Cool.... how about reading my post above and giving us your thoughts - you seem to have some free time.....

apparently, if it doesn't immediately agree with your point of view - you'll never know....

gotta go get ready for halloween... loved the brilliant conversation there Cool....

yup... truly... right in front of you... and you run like the devil is at your heels.... you could read and rebut....

you will sit and argue this long, but refuse to read my answer.... you'll even count pages.... but refuse to read..... " eyes that do not see, and ears that do not hear " ring a bell COOL?

the answer to your question is within my answer... thats the nature of question and answer.... but if the questioner - all of a sudden - cannot hear the answer... it is not the fault of the answerer... but in the " ears that do not hear "

gotcha COOLHAND... i understand... you refuse to read the supplied proof.... you want it posted again, so you can ignore it again?

my words: your words: title of the Article : I have assured you that I have read this article many times... and used it as a reference to check every one of the referenced documents, and books, and articles I have been able to find at this point, and have assured you I agree with the findings.. The topic does INDEED require all of the words Mr. Cronshaw has put into it, which was why I was having so much difficulty putting it all together into a concise post for you... I used the article for clarity and conciseness - FOR YOUR BENEFIT - as my words would have been much less clear, and would have repeated themselves much more frequently... Did you say that the topic is not worth understanding - because if that is your assertion - there is no point continuing this with you.... but I must state that I have read your opinion of the Bible, and if you place no value in knowing how much of it has been preserved FAITHFULLY, my opinion of your words is affected....

wouldn't have posted it did it not.... you asked... there it is... why did you ask if you don't have the time? I'm currently taking courses for two separate degrees, volunteering, and counseling... and had the time to find the answer to your question... I simply couldn't take the time to write it out in my own words... but I DID read it to make sure it agreed with my views... It focuses more upon the trinity than I would have... but I do not disagree with the facts displayed... I've noticed the predilection of many to simply repeatedly voice the opinions which match their favorite views, without regard for the veracity of what they say... Because of the Nature of the obfuscation which has been practiced around the Biblical texts, I do not necessarily fault the individuals, however I personally feel the need to be supported in what I relate to those who come to me for elucidation... I take my ordination far more seriously than I did when I applied for it... It's a joke no longer... people are serious when they come to me with questions which weigh heavily on their minds, and I must be serious in my replies.... I have my times of failure, and am far from perfect, but I try to relate the Facts in an unbiased way, supplying the facts after considerable work at obtaining them, and due to the Nature of Religious texts I feel the necessity to verify whatever I can from an historical basis - for if I cannot verify that what I teach is as close to the original as possible, I are merely forwarding the institutional dogma of an ORGANIZATION with an agenda... an action which is, ahem - frowned upon - by the SPIRIT of the Teachings I claim to represent... It's a fine line between respecting another's personal views, and listening to them relate words which are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to the teachings they claim to represent.... does one simply remain quiet, or supply them with the information they seem to be lacking? when one is asked, it seems that supplying the information is the appropriate course... it is up to them whether that information is put to use.... I won't even mention how many books I have open upon my desk at this moment - as I said, this is serious business for me....

do you have the fortitude to read it, and check the referenced material?

after hours of work I give up and offer this Coolhand, because what you are asking is too much for a simple post : I can post the other half later if you would like.....

thousands of texts written by whom? men such as you? or spong?

I am reminded of Matthew 16: 5-12

which one, coolhand? do you have an original copy with Jesus' signature? or was yours as mishandled as History shows mine was? No matter how you slice it, the text you refer to was written by men, based upon the related tales of witnesses.... and you insisting the Holy Spirit is more completely contained in a text, than the heart of men? I daresay the man has had many, many years of Biblical study - your understanding trumps his, because his understanding is slightly different? why did Jesus teach in parables?

would a Jew reading your sermons feel as you do about Spong? Not trying to be a smart alec here... but isn't the Christian Faith ( as it is primarily practiced ) an evolving religion? Is there only one correct view of Christianity? There seems to be a steady evolution of doctrine going on... and why point to one and say he's off base? ( thats an actual question... not a response with a question mark... )

Maybe he is coming from a standpoint of his own experience and understanding... by your own argument, shouldn't all Christians be coming from a much more Jewish standpoint??????

Fawzo...... I am sorry, my friend....... My heart reaches out to you and your family.... I will send prayers and much positive energy towards you , your family, and your Father.... This is an action that brings a cold knot to my heart... I will pray for assistance for him in his despair... And for support and guidance for your thoughts... you are Well Loved here my friend, anything I can do, you need only ask... If you desire someone to talk to, I will be available for you....

shoulda had UBUNTU with it's lil desktop tabs... I keep talking and I'm prolly gonna have problems... check out the UBUNTU thread Rev... ___________________________________________________________ I have included the ULC, and my fellow ministers in more than a few heartfelt prayers over the last bunch of months... and I hope others will too...