Atwater Vitki

In Rememberance
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  1. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to the forum! We're pleased you decided to join our growing family of friends and ever so look forward to getting to know you. We're always happy to have new perspectives that give us all something to ponder. Blessings of Peace,

  2. Atwater Vitki
    Well so much for lunch, shower and trip to the store! I've spent the time instead trying to find an update on this "Dead Sea Scroll on stone" to no avail. Seems as if it had a momentary spotlight in 2008 and then...then? .....poof! What I do find intriguing about this story though is that we as contemporary readers of any subject need to really understand the settings any story relates. If as this stone memo says, stories of resurrection existed decades, even centuries, before Jesus in Jewish beliefs, then it makes even more sense about the addition of this aspect to the Apostle's writing of his story. I read a compelling article many years ago on Simon (the other brother to Christ) being a naturopathic healer and that the "vinegar" given to Jesus on the cross was a death like knock out formula. 3 day coma and besides a horrific hangover with possible hallucinations, full recovery. Do I believe it? Not 100%, but I feel like most "possibilities" there's a chance it might have happened the way the author depicted. Stories of death and resurrection go back thousands of years in many cultures, even the Nordic sagas of the Valkyries and slain warriors is akin to resurrection, so unless we can talk to someone at the crucifixion, chances are anything we come up with today is speculation at worst, academic conjecture at best. The main thing is we keep on exploring!! Blessings of Peace,
  3. Atwater Vitki
    First off Von, "Amen" to what you said above. Suzanne, what you quoted above is nearly identical to the material I've read on such things as the "Collective Consciousness", "The Source", "The All" etc...the things I mention frequently which are all encompassing of the Trinity, "God", pantheon and the many nomenclatures of Spiritual thought. This is precisely why I do not believe, the path is as important as the message of any given belief structure, either. Religious and secular beliefs of exoteric and esoteric origins are purely the devices human-kind uses to describe this "christed energy". I've always found it to be a part of the "human condition" as to why there are so many arguments and debates over the path while nearly all seem to embrace the same constructs. Therefor, the only conclusion I can garner from such idiosyncrasies is that some humans wrongly believe themselves to be above "God". Kind of silly, but ever so "Hu-man". If we could, as Von said, "put away childish things", especially those of our own making, the message would indeed be the focus of discussions and our individual paths would not matter what-so-ever. Excellent message of "Unity" Von, and well expressed by everyone. Blessings of Peace,
  4. Atwater Vitki
    An educated Roman Citizen, savvy businessman with many friends in circles of Empire authority, as was Paul, hmm, to think he would not have had personal motives for advancing a new religious ideology... ....seems like putting an awful lot of faith in a man who persecuted many early Christians that did not adhere to his personal opinions prior to his "conversion". Whether reading the New Testament or secular sources regarding Saul...oops I mean Paul, well actually Saul, no Paul...ah... how about both(1)!? I have to think he saw a golden opportunity to advance his own agenda, ideals and new found religious interpretations. After re-reading the Didache, as Pete did and what Reverend V had to say, I have to agree that the Pauline version of salvation and the teachings of the Christ are a bit at odds...if one cares to really dissect the careful wording of the writings of the Disciples (oh but darn, many of those are considered Gnostic now aren't they?) and accounts by Ignatius. While Paul may have never lived in the splendor subsequent Popes have, he sure set the wheels in motion for dualistic meanings to "faith", "money" (tithing) and "salvation". Blessings Be, PS: There are many good folks who believe and only believe what is written in the Bible and declare the "Word of God" to be the only source material with any "authority" over Christianity. Okay, cool and that is what you are more than entitled to believe. There was a time when I used one book and only one book as my undeniable "resource" for all I needed to know about my path as well. Only to find out some 18 years ago I could no longer ignore the evidences posited in other resource material. Then in 2000, any doubt was put away when I read the very "source" of what I thought was The Source, just reinterpreted and discovered that I, and many others, had been lead astray by a "Paul"...one who presumed to be and presented himself as the sole authority of my Beliefs. There is so much rich historical facts written by Roman Caesar's, Governors and Senators, noblemen from across Asia-Minor and many other outstanding historical figures from the same period as the Apostles and even Disciples. To discount their versions of historical facts is something I do not understand how anyone can do. (1) from Wikipedia: As a Roman citizen he also bore the Latin name of "Paul"- in Biblical Greek: Σαούλ (Saul), Σαῦλος (Saulos), and Παῦλος (Paulos), and in Latin: Saul, Saulus and Paulus. It was quite usual for the Jews of that time to have two names, one Hebrew, the other Latin or Greek. (And no, Wiki is not the preeminent source of previous research, just compares to what has been found elsewhere)
  5. Atwater Vitki
    Let's see at just a month shy of my 16th b-day I ran away from the insanity of double standards and forced un-truths at my parents' house and enjoyed three months of freedom. Only a year later, after being returned to "Stalag 3120" by a pretty cool sheriff deputy, I was off to boot camp and then Viet Nam. That year period was packed full of "important decisions", many of which sent me on the crusade I've been on since. Prior to that, I'd have to agree with Kingfisher that making the decision to quit poopy pantsing was probably one of the major "important decisions" prior to my coming of age.
  6. Atwater Vitki
    The Comparative Religion course was informative and I thought well worth the price of the course. If there is a down side or any negs about it, I would say it did only touch on "basics". For my own Works, I've had to expand on what I got from the course, but then I suppose any college or university course is the same when someone wants to "know more than" what is offered in the curriculum. But as a down to basics, absolutely GREAT place to start, I give it 4½ of 5 + Blessings Be,
  7. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to the ULC.net forum! Take a look around, join in on the discussions and let us know a little about yourself in New Members and FAQ's. We are always glad to see new perspectives. We're glad you've chosen our forum to expand your path and understanding! Blessings of Peace, Al

  8. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to the ULC.net forum! Take a look around, join in on the discussions and let us know a little about yourself in New Members and FAQ's. We are always glad to see new perspectives. We're glad you've chosen our forum to expand your path and understanding! Blessings of Peace, Al

  9. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to our little family of friends here at the forum! I hope you will give us the opportunity to get to know you better and look forward to your contributions to the many discussions. It's always a pleasure to meet new people, thus new perspectives and new ideals to throw in the mix. Blessings of Peace, Al

  10. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to our little family of friends here at the forum! I hope you will give us the opportunity to get to know you better and look forward to your contributions to the many discussions. It's always a pleasure to meet new people, thus new perspectives and new ideals to throw in the mix. Blessings of Peace, Al

  11. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to our little family of friends here at the forum! I hope you will give us the opportunity to get to know you better and look forward to your contributions to the many discussions. It's always a pleasure to meet new people, thus new perspectives and new ideals to throw in the mix. Blessings of Peace, Al

  12. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to our little family of friends here at the forum! I hope you will give us the opportunity to get to know you better and look forward to your contributions to the many discussions. It's always a pleasure to meet new people, thus new perspectives and new ideals to throw in the mix. Blessings of Peace, Al

  13. Atwater Vitki

    I'd like to take this opportunity to Welcome you to the forum! Thank you for joining and I hope you'll find our little Family of Friends to be a place you come home to on a regular basis. We always enjoy new perspectives and fresh ideas, so let's hear yours! Blessings of Peace, Al

  14. Atwater Vitki
    The whole concept of "emulation" vs that of "worship" is based on this very premise. There is a arch-physical "being" Odhinn who we do not worship, rather as Leopard said, honor. The "All-Father" Odhinn reigns supreme over the Æsir and Vanir gods and goddesses from his castle Välhalr in Äsgaard (Nordic heaven) Does Odin really exist? (for those who honor the Norse traditions) Is it more like the concept of Odin exists? It is from the many sagas we learn of the gods' escapades and various dealing with us mortals and take our lessons from those experiences. The "wise" among us, will learn the right and/or wrong way to approach problems in Life based on these stories. How we deal with them is of course doing "right" or finding out how destructive "wrong" is. The Voluspa is one of the better skaldic writings to learn of the way us mere mortals perceive the hierarchy. As well, "The Tricking of Gylfi" or "Gylfaginning" is also a good read for the clever manner in which the Nordic pantheon reveals itself to mortals, for anyone interested. There is a lot of academic debate regarding the origins of the Norse, but the more archaeological evidence we find it is really becoming evident that Odin and Thor were part of a large group of people that emigrated from none other than Troy around 3500-3300BCE. It is though by several modern day professors on Nordic mythology that the flesh and blood leaders of that group (approx 8,000-10,000 people) are the source of the latter Nordic mythology though it is clear that the men themselves were not the "gods", rather their names became superimposed over the ethereal beings who's names have been lost to the centuries. There is, however, a good deal of similarity to the ancient Trojan pantheon and that of the much later Nordic pantheon, even though the Nordics seemed to have added many names to their list. Hope that helped. Blessings of Peace,
  15. Atwater Vitki
    Voodoo - interesting parallels to the Nordic pantheon! Blessings Be,
  16. Atwater Vitki
    There are many ways to go, but you may be thinking 501 © 3, Not for Profit organization. "LegalZoom" is okay for basics, but there a number of "Ask a Lawyer" dot coms that should be able to answer your inquiries. Just a tidbit, but hopefully helps. Blessings of Peace,
  17. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to our growing family of friends here on the forum. We're glad you could joins us! As you feel the need, join us in the discussions and let us know a bit about yourself. It's always a pleasure getting to know new folks. Blessings of Peace, Al

  18. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to our growing family of friends here on the forum. We're glad you could joins us! As you feel the need, join us in the discussions and let us know a bit about yourself. It's always a pleasure getting to know new folks. Blessings of Peace, Al

  19. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to ULC.net forum! We're glad to have you! We hope that you will find many ways in which to apply information found here to your ideas and chosen path. We always welcome fresh perspectives and understandings of both traditional and non-traditional Beliefs. So let's hear about yours! A good place to start is Forum TOS, New Members and FAQ's or Welcome. Blessings of Peace, Al

  20. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to ULC.net forum! We're glad to have you! We hope that you will find many ways in which to apply information found here to your ideas and chosen path. We always welcome fresh perspectives and understandings of both traditional and non-traditional Beliefs. So let's hear about yours! A good place to start is Forum TOS, New Members and FAQ's or Welcome. Blessings of Peace, Al

  21. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to ULC.net forum! We're glad to have you! We hope that you will find many ways in which to apply information found here to your ideas and chosen path. We always welcome fresh perspectives and understandings of both traditional and non-traditional Beliefs. So let's hear about yours! A good place to start is Forum TOS, New Members and FAQ's or Welcome. Blessings of Peace, Al

  22. Atwater Vitki

    Welcome to ULC.net forum! We're glad to have you! We hope that you will find many ways in which to apply information found here to your ideas and chosen path. We always welcome fresh perspectives and understandings of both traditional and non-traditional Beliefs. So let's hear about yours! A good place to start is Forum TOS, New Members and FAQ's or Welcome. Blessings of Peace, Al

  23. Atwater Vitki
    We routinely need "clarification" around here on wording matters...but hey, that's any forum. As the topic here is "Bible vs. Nature" it also brings up one of the many conflicts brought about by literalness. As "Naturalists" most pagan and heathen, and of course the newer collections of wiccan writers, as well as for the last 100 years of "First Peoples", are all trying to preserve what is left of an oral tradition that were steeped in nature. On counter point, that's what I believe Moses was doing some 3500 years ago with the "new technology" of writing, preserving the oral traditions set down by Abraham and monotheism. I just don't believe we should take it all "literally". Even as a "professed Pagan" I sincerely concede the point that the Bible, Koran, Gita, the writings of Confucius, Buddha, Edda, Shinto etc etc all have a place in trying to explain our alliance with the Divine. All have valuable lessons and graphic examples of how we should, and shouldn't, treat each other. Naturalism puts into practice the wonders of Creation, whether one believes it as written in the Bible, or the numerous versions found throughout the many, many cultures of humanity. There is a spot on Maui where a 50' high waterfall drops into about a 100' by 50' pool about 15' deep, right at the edge of the ocean. You can sit on the rock edge and get sprayed by crashing ocean waves on your back while the mist of the freshwater falls hits you in the face, all at the same time. Swimming in this "sacred pool" and sitting under the falls, brings a person into connection with Divine Spirit, regardless of what label one puts on it, believer or atheist, devout or wanna-be....everyone that goes there is "touched" by something outside, yet inside our very Self. Whatever it is, by definition, by label, by convention of thought that "touches" you while there is what people of every culture around the globe try to express in words about their personal experiences with the Divine. As folks who have been to those falls several times, Kay and I find it impossible to put into words just "what" that "touch" is...but it is so awesomely real. We tried to share that with everyone we met while living there, both tourist and local that hadn't been there. The feed back we got was simple mumbling, loss of words, no one could adequately describe the "connection" felt at that pool/waterfall. And therein lies the rub with people trying to express any connection a person has first hand with the Divine. This is precisely how I feel about any "book" that tries to express the Divine Connection. It is not something a person can read about, and "get it". It must be experienced, first hand or the definition will eternally fall short. Anyone who has this same connection with "God", or?, or?, or?, knows exactly what I mean. Blessings of Peace,
  24. Atwater Vitki
    mererdog...if that was YOUR dad, gulp, I think that means we're brothers....I heard that routinely in my house as well until my bro and sis left when I was 7. Then it was what Bro Kaman said...."crack you between the horns"....I'm getting the feeling I was adopted out around age 10...don't blame 'em a bit! Bro. Devon - shameless plug or not, good stuff! Reallllly good stuff! From an old Viking saying: "Look not into the Spirit of a Man, for the Warrior, Look not into the Warrior, for the meaning of his Soul, Look not into the Soul, for the meaning of his Spirit, Rather, speak to his prey and you will learn his very Being." (It meant enough to me to have it tattooed around the Viking slaying a 2 headed dragon that covers my right thigh, hip to knee) Blessings of Peace,
  25. Atwater Vitki
    Rev. Bland - I honestly don't believe Leopard was in any way trying "one up-manship". We go through this a lot here due to the written word vs. "in person" for the nuances and body language etc. I got what the whole thing was about from the first post only because, yep, been around awhile and know these good folks. I also got how you meant it as well. And in general - The very problems I am having in my family (and extended through my mother's church) right now is due to my views of "emulation" vs. their views of "worship". IMHO, they truly are in "slavery" and bondage to the way they believe while I am in alliance with the full backing of my deities. They live in fear of their "God" and are indeed enslaved to the hierarchy of the church and perceptions of their peers. I am in cohort and brotherhood with those I emulate and have as fellow followers, therefore have no such bondage or restrictions. It is as Leo says, (in a manner of speaking) a matter of perception. People can choose to be "enslaved" or "in league with" what they choose as their "religion". And to be fair, I also know several good folk who understand the message of the Christ and live in bliss and alliance with Him as well by refusing to become enslaved to dogma and doctrine of The Church. I truly believe that once people figure out the variances of being enslaved to dogmatic or doctrinal indifference as compared to the freedoms afforded the individual with a bond of Love, it doesn't matter what "religion" they are. Christ said "where any two gather in my name, so am I there"....Odhinn (in one of his many disguises) said "If two or a hundred gather for the sake of the Aesir, they have insight"...not sure which came first as both are thought to be roughly 1st century CE writing, but the message is the same....you don't have to be "enslaved" to human authority to have the power and backing of the Universal Divine Spirit. Choosing to be enslaved to human indifference and controlled by fear of authority or choosing the independent Free Will bond of Love makes all the difference in the world...literally. Blessings of Peace,