Fawzo

This is well stated but one can achieve the same state of mind through a plethora of belief systems and practices without casting a single spell. Would you say that magick is simply the use of thought forms? Everything we perceive in life is a thought form on some level. One of the reasons I associate magick with the ego is when one persons magick spell can outdo another persons magick spell. If magick in these instances were "true" or "truth" another persons magick would not be able to have any effect on the original thought form or spell. Some magick is just the use of natural laws (or thought forms) that the common person is unaware of. As science delves into these thought forms they no longer are considered to be magick but merely science. I think Reiki is falling into this category now. One of the forms of magick which makes me chuckle is a Sidgil with the intent on stopping another person from invading some space or preforming some action. If all the Wiccan and Pagans on the planet climbed to the top of Mt. Olympus and created a Sidgil over the top of my keyboard to keep moi from posting here the rest of this week, unless I'm physically incapacitated I'll be spelling the word "because" wrong at least 20 times the rest of the week here until IE spell catches it lol.

Naw not yet, you're still ok....but I think its time you change that flea collar <scratch scratch>

That is beautiful Rev.Fred thanks for sharing it with us!

They are a necessity it seems in our present state of awareness. A great mystic once stated "physician heal thyself" but that is very hard to do when one isn't aware that they are a physician. It is not even easy for those who are coming into the knowledge that they are such.

I will certainly agree that the supply of energy within our Universe is enough for all and then some. It merely changes forms depending on the perceiver and their level of awareness. The omelets and roads you wish to make are desires. A mystic desires only walking in the love of the Divine. In this state of mind one has no thoughts of food or roads and just being is all there is and desire ceases to exist. So when you state you that you don't find magick and mysticism to be mutually exclusive, I have to disagree because the use of magick seems rooted in a desire to change your present situation more to your liking. It is a possibilty that the Divine Source has nothing to do with any of this and some portion of Consciousness wondered "what it would be like to go off and play by myself" or even that first thought of "I" created a dream like illusion which holds our main focus at the moment, just as our dreams hold our focus while we're in that level of awareness. Do you think that the Divine had forknowledge of the less desireable creations of mankind and just allowed them to proceed without interferring? Didn't the Divine set the parameters of the game and what is and is not allowed within the game? Are you so sure this is true? If bliss was the goal then we would have never left the side of the Divine in the first place. Bliss isn't bliss if that is all you have. Eternity is a very very very long time and then some. Without the negative the positive does not exist. To help keep us entertained through eternity change would need to be a constant IMHO...look around at our Universe and notice this might be the only absolute truth in that change is constant. When one is bored and watching televison sometimes one flips channel after channel consectutively until that gets boring and then one settles on a program to watch for a brief period of time. This life of ours could be such an event. Instead of 30 minutes of Hogan's Heros its 70 years of life on earth. I will agree that Man should live in harmony with Nature. I think we have bent it as far as we dare due to our ignorance and immaturity and those philosophical schools that teach it is here for our use and abuse. Stewardship is the goal. In my opinion Magick could beused as a tool to help us better implement a plan, but once we develope the use of our minds more effectively, it will be likened unto an flint arrow head used by neolitihc man.

I can agree with everything stated above. The wise mystic would pretty much walk in the words of the serenity prayer. "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference." I am sure there are similar type sayings in other cultures. Yes many folks have healed and as a side note I do not label myself as Christian. I try to find the gold nuggets in all the belief systems I have encountered through my life. If my mind were any more open I would need one of those bungi type cords to hold it in place when I walk. I have no problem with Reiki practice. I kind of see it like the parable which states if you give a hungry man a fish you feed him for one meal but if you teach him how to fish you feed him for life. If you perform a healing on someone you take care of that days pain but if you teach them how to use their minds properly to avoid the disturbances which cause the imbalance you take care of a lifetime of pain for that person. I also wonder about Reiki practitioners who believe in karma. If someone is suffering isn't it the effect of karma and what consequences could the practitioner themselves incur for interfering. I don't see where I'm being short sighted. I'm posing thoughts to induce discussion with others. I have very little doubt that everyone is a spark of the Divine Source which I have experienced as an agape loving deity. I get the impression that you assume I'm of Christian belief. While I do try to live whole heartedly the two great commandments Yeshua gave us, I also love the teachings of Buddha, Lao Tzu, Seth associated with Jane Roberts and a host of others. I even tried taking Wicca 101 classes once but it wasn't for me. Brightest Blessings!!! Are you inferring that you are not a proponent of "free will" then. Is everything as the Divine Ones wished it to be in our Universe? I can understand this completely and sympathize with both your pains. The source of this belief of his is what needs to be addressed IMHO. Treating the cause instead of the effects seems to me to be more beneficial to you both.

What if the Divine didn't want you to change a certain situation but wanted you to learn from it. I'll give an example. What if I or someone you care about becomes ill and you do a spell for healing and help cure the ill person. What if the Divine had a specific purpose for inflicting that person with the illness, becuase they had a life's lesson to learn from it. Either to slow down because they were working too hard and on the path to a heart attack which would kill them or as a hint so that they might change their diet and improve their powers of reasoning so that may become more cognizant of the Divine within themselves and all those around them. By healing the person you may have in effect robbed them temporarily of that lesson and caused them worse suffering later. I do think becoming aware of the subtle energies in our Universe is important.

Our minds are powerful and humans use many forms of ritual to help them focus their minds and the power therein. I was in a discussion group last weekend with a bunch of Wiccan practicioners and the leader of their group stated that the pentagram or pentacle itself held power because of the shape of its design. I being the rebel rouser that I am being the only non-Wiccan stated that I doubted this was true. If one takes a tree for example and carves the pentacle/pentagram from a portion of it, how would this be more powerful than the uses of the rest of the tree. SOme parts could be used for furniture and some even fro toilet tissue etc etc etc. the same tree made all the items why would the pentacle/pentagram be any more powerful then the toilet tissue. I'm not picking on Wicca here any religious symbolism carved from the tree, inclusing a cross, would be just as powerful as the toilet tissue IMHO. Take any other material gold, silver, steel and portions of the same slabs could be used to make a variety of items all equally as powerful and Holy as the other. We give our religious symbols the power and value that they have. If the design itself is what imbues the symbol with the power then a symbol created of dog feces would be just as powerful!!! I'm not intending to upset anyone just give them pause to ponder the power of their own minds.

Any time you gain something through the use of magick someone or something loses out in the process. If the divine wanted something to be a different way than that which it already is, than IMHO the divine would have created it thusly. It doesn't create junk!!! Would the divine be so inept that it needed humans to change things from the way it created them to be? In my opinion magick serves the ego well. Does little for the divine. But I appreciate your viewpoint as I have many friends who share it with you. Brightest Blessings!

There is a difference between using magic and being a mystic. People who use magic are trying to get the powers that be to bend to their own personal desires and whims while mystics are in love with the divine and only wish to enjoy experiencing the divine as is. Just thought I would point that out. I've sat in on many a Wiccan discussion where the two have been used interchangeably erroneously.

I heard a Buddhist teaching one time that there are two ways to come to this awareness during meditation. One can meditate on the belief that everything is God or one can meditate that everything is self. Both paths can get one to the point of awareness. He used the aphorism God because he was speaking to a mostly Christian oriented group.

It's God's will that "none should perish" we don't have anything to worry about......."so be it".....it's also my will and a hosts of other's wills. Doesn't seem as if there is anything to worry about then does it!!!

Glad to hear shes doing a little better. Best wishes and postive energy going your way.

Happy Birthday Rev Ed and the others as well! Have a most blessed day and year!

That made me wonder if Monty Python ever did an Apocalyptic comed?

Are you talking about scitpural ones such as Shepard of Hermas, I & II Esdras, the Coptic Apocalypse of Peter and two other Apocalypses of Peter. The Apocalypse of Paul and the The secret book of John also known as the Apocryphon of John. All these circulated among the church during early Christianty and a few where even thought of as canon and can be found in the earliest manuscripts of the Bible such as Codex Sinaiticus.

I started to and found your statement to be untrue so I stopped.

I'll say no since IMO color is a perception and truth is an experience. Truth is love what color is love?

Cool I look forward to watching that show. Wouldn't take much to convince me that some amongst here are direct descendants

I wish I had seen this sooner but you and yours will be in my prayers as well.

I too hope everyone is fine and the electric comes back on soon so they can get back in here and tell us all about their adventures and answer the question of did they see any flying monkeys?

Good thoughts and well wishes headed her way!

Yes brightest blessings and positive energies for the lovely lady!!!!

I would think a few credit cards might be maxed out. I'm going to avoid the rush though in case the credit card companies catch on and drop limits and start spending in 2010.

While I have felt and expressed the same views on the matter, something inside me feels that even the statement "I AM A PROUD MEMBER OF THE HUMAN" RACE" is a statement which attempts at separating us as more important than the rest of creation. I personally feel as we become more in tune with creation, the statement and thought "I Am" is sufficient. Yet even with this statement the "I" could be the starting point of our separation from complete and total bliss with All That Is. There is no I in God!