Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Dan seems to think that an alien species -- with Creation stories about their own god -- would be a confirmation of Genesis. More than that. A confirmation of "Christ" -- since he can't make the distinction between Christ and God. Even an alien god. Maybe you can argue with that kind of reasoning. I can't. At least, I'm not willing. For me, it's time to slam the lid down on this one. The horse is dead. The flies are gathering. I can't be bothered. You're a Stoic. Do you think Stoic philosophy would be of interest to an alien?

I can't argue with your reasoning.

To be clear; if these aliens had a story, about how their god created the Universe, you would take that as validating Christianity? That seems to be what you said. I'm trying to be fair. If that's not what you meant, please clarify.

Seriously? You think the aliens would be descended from Adam and Eve? That is the only way they would need redemption from Original Sin. A hard sell, if they aren't Human. Suppose their religion does offer a way, to come into fellowship with God. Their God. Not yours. Would you sign up? Are you ready to tell alien missionaries, that they need to be saved by Christ?

I would enjoy, beyond words, hearing what ever it is, that the missionary from the stars has to say. Whether I would join up is not the point. I would love to hear the message. You know. Open mind.

I don't know the quote that you're thinking of. Motel Six says that they will "leave the light on for you".

It's too late to hide. Our TV and radio signals can not be confused with anything natural. Neither can the light given off by our cities. The pollution in our air is also not natural.

If they can cross Interstella space, they have tech. Everything else is speculation.

Advanced technology might indicate intelligence. It has nothing to do with sanity. If they're missionaries, they could be total loons. About half a year ago, a Christian missionary tried bringing Christ to an isolated, xenophobic tribe; off the coast of Brazil. They kill all outsiders, so the island is forbidden. When the missionary got close enough, the tribe killed him with an arrow. Alien visitors to Earth would have tech. They would have intelligence. Sanity? Judgment? It's an open question.

I did a whole thought piece, on Earth religion, and what it might have to offer an alien. Isn't anything else worth mentioning?

Or vegetarian.

Yes, and so well done.

It was an old episode of the Twilight Zone. An alien, addressing the U.N., puts down his book and leaves it there. The title translated as -- "TO SERVE Man". It turned out to be a cookbook.

There is a deep tangle of thoughts here. All non-linear. I'm not sure I know what you're asking or asserting. Still, I think you are being sincere. I will nibble about the edges. Maybe, I can work my way in. First, I am not a materialist. My background includes various types of meditation; qi gong; tai chi; reiki; therapeutic touch; etc. In pursuit of my studies, I have taken initiations to Quan Yin, Medicine Buddha and Sekhmet. I am persuaded that while there is only one reality, it gets thin about the edges. It irritates me when Dan and other Fundamentalists, try to define everything, for everyone. So, I resist. It is amusing to be lectured to, about how non-spiritual I am. It irritates me, when a Catholic mystic (name with held) on this board, prattles on about "orbs" being proof of Catholic doctrine. I have forgotten more about the aura and chakra system than he ever knew. Down to vocabulary. I have tried various labels. Each label gets different, standard responses. Agnostic. When I say Agnostic, I get two basic responses. 1. What would it take for you to make up your mind? 2. Various challenges about the nature and limits of knowledge. Yes. I am Agnostic. There is no objective, verifiable information about God. This does not mean giving equal weight to God's existence or non-existence. In the absence of anything to go on -- faith is nothing but a strong opinion, held and maintained without facts -- I find God's existence to be unlikely. Atheist. I am an Atheist. In the absence of objective, verifiable facts about God, I don't believe. If others wish to believe without evidence, this is not my issue. I need a reason to believe. Something more than a popularity contest. If I'm ready to believe without evidence; I will fall for any con. Standard responses include the First Cause; God as watchmaker; various knocks against evolution and Cosmology, objective morality, etc. All utterly irrelevant and meaningless. Seriously. It's always the SAME stupid arguments. Again. For the first time. Oh! Look! Trees! God did it! -- Pascal's Wager. "Suppose you're wrong." Apatheism. Not giving a crap whether or not God exists. Because I'm so sick of the same stupid arguments, over and over again. When I find a reason to believe; maybe I will find a reason to care. Again -- no facts. People can't even agree on a working definition of God. "Spirit" is no help at all. Getting all bent out of shape -- arguing about God? Life is too short. In any event, there is a historic process. Religion becomes mythology. The gods lose their majesty and their living reality -- and become quaint. Even now, what do we call Bible stories for children? Bible stories.

I think that you have made the question, way too complicated. Here's a thought experiment. The space ship lands. It's a Vulcan space ship. (Well, Vulcan like) The crew are intelligent, logical and curious. They want to know about Earth religion. They want to know if there is anything in Earth religion, that could be relevant to them. Well? Possibly Buddhism. A Buddhist could have a conversation with anyone, about the nature of suffering, and the process of releasing desire. Possibly Taoism. A Taoist could discuss the nature of change, and the union of opposites, with anyone. There are also the 64 poems. "The Tao that can be named, is not the eternal Tao....." Possibly Pantheism. The sacred nature of everything as a totality. Everything is everything. Atheism is not a religion. Still, a Human Atheist might want to know, if the visitors have a non-theistic philosophy, that serves their needs. I sure would. Would the visitors be Atheist? Until they land, it's pure speculation. Humanism is not religion. Still, the visitors might find Earth Humanism interesting. Of course, other Earth philosophies. For instance, the Stoics. The appeal is to reason. Christianity would be a hard sell. Obviously, the visitors are not suffering from Original Sin. They are not looking for redemption. Judaism would be off the table. Jews don't preach to gentiles. I think Islam would be a hard sell. Of course, the visitors might be looking for something new, different and exotic. Like an American in South America, looking for a Shaman to study with. Like an American in India, looking for a guru. Or, they could be missionaries. Forgive me. I have to say it. "TO SERVE MAN"

Welcome back. I've missed you.

Yes. That is part of it. Under Saudi Law, Atheism is regarded as a form of terrorism. The issues have a way of merging. Atheism, terrorism, social policy, issues with "ex pats" -- it all merges. Saudi Arabia blends Monarchy with Islamic (Sunni) Theocracy. The various powers have a seamless world view and they do what they want.

A few inches up on this thread -- " and if you look how they treat expats (not even talking about women)... " The Saudi government kills apostates. It is a strong motivator for apostates to become "expats". When a Saudi Muslim becomes an Atheist, that is a double death penalty. It's time to leave.

That depends. There is static stability, which is death. There is dynamic equilibrium, which is life.

Death for leaving the faith is extreme. If being Muslim were that great, it would be hard to enter and easy to leave.

National Socialism is Nazi-ism. Is that where you're going?

Almost. This is a group of Jews -- supposedly -- who take as a given -- that all Jews who don't take on Jesus, as their Lord and Savior, will burn in Hellfire -- forever. From this, it follows that not trying to SAVE Jews is antisemitic. Of course, if Hitler had come to Christ, he would be in Heaven. Depraved is such an inadequate word.

When you want to find the unfindable; look under your bed. It won't be there, but when you finish looking, you'll have a clean place to sleep. While you're at it, feel free to join the search for Happiness. It's actually a Constitutional right to engage in that search. Personally, I'm looking for Equilibrium. Searching for your life's purpose is also a popular pass time. I've tried looking for God. What a waste of time that was. Nothing but false sightings and rumors. They do say that memory is the first thing to go. I'm sorry. What was the question?

When Fate, had a date with Destiny, Nuance was their love child. He finds his parents overly strict, so he keeps wandering off. Nuance does indeed get lost. The goddess, Apathea, is the personification of Apathy. The god, Procrastus, is the personification of Procrastination. What happens when Apathea mates with Procrastus? We may never find out. I'm on a roll! No, wait. In a jam? No. In a pickle? No. In a whale? No. That was Jonah. Back to the thread. Thread? Am I keeping you in stitches?

Just so. They consider that not preaching at Jews is antisemitism. I can't imagine getting stranger than that. Still, there has to be someone out there, who does have ideas.