Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Where is the evidence? Do you have anything besides Scripture, faith and assertion to back that up? Saying it does not make it so. Believing it does not make it so. Quoting Bible does not make it so. Another faith statement. So what? Further, a god that small, is so easy not to believe in. Or take seriously.

In my experience, when I use the Agnostic label, what happens? The big argument that comes my way is -- What would it take for you to make up your mind? In the minds of religious people, the question of God's existence, itself, sets up false expectations. that the question of God's existence matters. that I care whether or not God exists. that I am seeking to discover, whether or not God exists. that I am actively thinking about it. No. We have no objective, verifiable facts about God. Not one. Nothing about God can be demonstrated to be true. We can't even come up with a working definition of God. What then, are we even talking about? We do have a set of attributes -- all powerful, all good, all knowing -- which are not compatible with each other. In the end, even the question of God's existence is a thing of futility. A form of mental masturbation. It might be enjoyable, but it is useless. A god which can not be detected or discerned is meaningless. God could exist. It simply doesn't matter. For me, the word that best describes this, is Apatheist. Not caring whether or not God exists. No more arguing about belief. No more arguing about knowing. No more arguing about the burden of proof. No more arguing about evidence. No more stupid arguments about Creationism or Genesis. It doesn't matter.

I agree. The thought experiment is easy. Pretend that God exists. What changes? Nothing. Pretend that God does not exist. What changes? Nothing. Nothing changes either way? It doesn't matter.

The Planet of the Apes movies, have their action take place in New York City. I recognized the Statue of Liberty, The New York City subway system and Grand Central Station. New York City is also Batman's home base. They call it Gotham, which is New York City's nickname. Spider Man is portrayed in his movies, in New York City. Some of Men in Black and Ghost Busters also happen, in New York City. Where I'm going with this should be obvious. New York City is real. The rest is fantasy fiction.

I see two basic possibilities. Either Cml is a crazy person -- or a young child with computer access. Either way, I'm done with him.

I think he's crazy. It's time to disengage.

Keep on figuring.

Keep on making those assumptions about me.

Telling me to behave like Jesus, is not proof of his divinity -- or of God's existence.

Uh-huh. Do you know what proof means?

If I do not question the claims made by others -- I make myself vulnerable to every thief, conman, grifter, huckster, trickster, humbug and lie. No thank you. Some things are true. Some things are false. Discernment requires examination. God fails the test.

The Ontological Argument

Yes. Well done.

So while you are obviously unconvinced due to a lack of tangible facts Yes. My point exactly. Pete's point also, although I don't speak for him. I'm guessing that your real objection is based on your disagreement with the message itself? Keep guessing. And suffice to say, if you only have faith in something proven, you have no faith at all. You make that sound like a bad thing. That is why religion is called faith, instead of truth.

Faith statements is all this whole thing is made for, No. This is a place for faith statements, conversation, truth, disagreement and many other things. You are new to this board. Too new for such limiting assertions. so if you can't understand wat I'm saying then find someone,have them read it to you and then you will. Well, isn't that special. No. Not really.

Disproving God

Lies about Atheists

Part 2

What if you're wrong? Pascal's Wager

Yes.

This thread has leaked into the Peaceful Methods thread. There is more there.

I still find your words hard to understand. Difficult to the point -- that I'm not sure it's worth the trouble, of trying to figure out what you're saying. Some of it, I did understand. What I am understanding here, looks like faith statements. If you want to tell me what you believe -- that's fine. I have no issues with the beliefs of others. You are free to believe what ever you like. We all are. If you want to follow Dan's bad example -- and tell me what to believe -- we are going to argue. I must ask you. Is that what you want?

The basic Agnostic statement is -- I don't know. You keep insisting on -- I don't know nothing. That is your personal adulteration. When I don't know something, I say that I don't know. I prefer that, to accepting things that can not be demonstrated to be true. Agnosticism is about knowledge. I don't know (about God) is an Agnostic statement. Atheism is about belief. I don't believe (about God) is an Atheist statement. Apatheism is about caring. I don't care (about God) is an Apatheist statement. I know about things that can be known. Subject to revision, when I discover that I was mistaken. I believe when there is reason to believe. Subject to revision, when I discover that I was mistaken. I care about many things. God isn't one of them. Empty faith statements -- with their empty assertions -- don't give me a reason to care. Have a blessed day.

I would prefer this to be on the Apatheism thread. Still, threads will wander. We can try to guide them, but things don't work out as expected.

Another faith statement. Nothing else?