Native Americans

[Rev Kuespert]

Post made by OddyseyT in Open Pulpit:

Martin Luther King Jr. affected a whole generation or two. Black people are slowly gaining their civil rights. It's been a much slower process for Native Americans, however. Native Americans don't generally like being treated like black people. It's a whole different set of cultures. They have separate religious freedom issues. They have a problem, generally, with Native American mascots in sports. Apathy is killing them. It's important for people to stick up for the underdog, in this case Native Americans, instead of just standing by letting injustice happen. People tend to ignore Native American activists.

It doesn't help that there is still segregation going on in our schools. I always wanted to make friends with some Native American kids in school. There is corporal punishment in some Indian schools. Our history classes and books don't tell much of Native American history. History books would need to be rewritten to reflect a much more balanced and accurate picture of history. We teach prejudice in our schools through history classes. This is reflected even more, by how much the TV and radio ignore Native Americans. It's almost as if though we believe the more we ignore them, the more likely they are to go away.

They'd like their sovereignity, a lot like Ireland would. Anglo-saxons seem to take the angelic connotations of their name a little to seriously and are convinced of their right to rule over everybody else. That includes putting their culture first. But there is much to be gained from allowing other cultures to rule next to them. The Celts should be able to rule their own countries, just like Native Americans should be able to rule their own nations. Granted, banning corporal punishment in schools should be universal, but Anglo-Saxon culture is lacking some color.

The majority of white society is convinced of their superiority. It's a rare Native American in politics. This is ironic considering this was all their country to begin with. Freedom is preached, but not praticed. It can predominantly be blamed on religious bigotry and the ostracization of Goddess culture. Great Spirit is love; God is love. It's all the same God. God made all people, knows all people, and people celebrate God in different ways. Also I believe in the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman, and that She is Goddess. There should be no reason for telling them they can't have their sun dances and rain dances. And I happen to think the peace pipe ceremony is a good thing. The Bible is good because it has stories about Jesus in there, but it was written by fallible men. There's very little proof that the story of Adam and Eve was the truth. Native Americans have interesting creation stories, too.

White guilt doesn't help either. Nobody should feel guilty for being born white. Ignorance is inevitable, one has to do a lot of extra curricular study to cure ignorance about Native American cultures. This can be blamed on the politics of public education. It was our ancestors who set up the country this way. It doesn't help to apologize for something you didn't do or didn't know. Most of racism is propagated by murderers and child molestors. It should help to remember we've contributed a lot to their cultures like modern medicine, science, math and Jesus. We should let them influence our culture more. They've built great societies, and we could have a lot to learn from them.

My mom is Native American. She's a pretty normal person. There shouldn't be the kind of chasm there is between our cultures. They aren't exotic birds to be caged and studied. My mom is a buddhist. She doesn't know what tribe she's from because she is a child of rape. Her biological father was a rapist and didn't bother to tell her white mom what tribe he was from. I learned about prejudice from my girl scout leader. She ripped off my mom $30.00 by saying I had replaced the candy bars I was selling with rocks. It was a lie.

Modern day mythology attributes special powers to Native Americans. They don't have any special powers. This view of them tends to blot out the poverty and various other problems that are common on reservations. On the Navajo reservation, few people have electricity. In 1997, the government was relocating Navajo elders to a nuclear dump site to make way for Peabody coal. They were digging up sacred burial sites. I met a woman whose uncle was run over and killed by a bulldozer from the coal mine. Nothing was done about this murder. Very few people helped them out during this relocation. People need to help, because Native Americans don't have the kind of power it takes to stop this abuse.

When they do fight back, people refuse to understand. Leonard Peltier is in prison for defending himself and his people against murderous FBI agents. He may or may not have shot back at them. They should let him go. It was self defense.

The police are propagating prejudice by ignoring crimes against Native Americans. I had a Blackfoot friend who witnessed the murder of another Blackfoot teenager who was a civil rights activist. Nothing was done about this murder, even though it was a child. Nothing was ever done about the murder of my friend's uncle either.

I think it would only be humane to rebury dead Native Americans instead of studying them. Many Native Americans would prefer their dead to be reburied. We don't need to study them this badly. lt isn't as if the information archaeologists gain from studying the dead makes it into public schools anyway. Their studies are polluted with ethnocentrism, too. Why does white society take this sort of thing for granted. How would you feel if they dug up your grandmother and refused to rebury her? A grave is a sacred site to God, no matter what.

People need to stick up for Native Americans and what they need. There aren't enough of them to carry this burden alone. I stick up for the underdog, whether it be children or Native Americans and I am rewarded with a great sense of peace. I've found Native Americans to be generous hosts, in general and very understanding. They've helped me out a lot in return. Whenever I've been down and out it's always been Native Americans who are there for me. Obviously they know already what love is. I know my mom does.

October 14. 2006

--------------------

Theresa M. Lennon

geocities.com/TheresaMarieLennon

Thank you for posting. I coppied it here in hopes of creating discussion over the topic.

[Newt]

I agree completely

[tnthub]

Well,

The simple reason history books are biased is hat the dominant culture writes the books. It has been this way since time began, regardless of the struggle, the memories of the "battle" are always slanted toward the "winning" side, if you can call it that. This is normal. It may not be "right" but it is normal and it is how humans have documented their history forever.

The naming of school mascots, moutains, towns, and companies after Native Americans, to the best of my knowledge, was typically done to preserve their heritage, not destroy it. Our politically correct culture today is removing the traces of our history that have to do with Native Americans at their request and as such they are less in the mindset of the average American than they were 30 years ago. Heck, my college team was the "Resksins" and now they are the "Redhawks"... Go figure...

Most native American traditional cultures want as little to do with American politics and government as possible. To them we are still viewed as the people who took their land and screwed up the balance of nature. Why do I think this? I think it because I had a priviledge of spearfishing in Wisconsin on a reservation when I was in college. I thionk it because I worked on a job in Eastport Maine and spent time every day on a reservation for a year. I think it because I studied Native American culture in college and I think it because I have a good friend who is a Native American and lives on a reservation.

My family settled on the Kennebec river in Maine in the 1600's. My mother passed down stories to me of Indian raids and how our family was taken to Canada and sold into slavery by the Indians. There are 14 graves behind my Mom's home testifying to the violence of the struggle for survival. I have no idea who was right and who was wrong, or if it was just a simple mis-understanding, but the tragedy was very real and a couple of my ancient relatives escaped from slavery and returned to tell their tales.

I am aware of certain reservations, and certain areas on them, that you do not want to travel if you are white. If you do, you will be hurt.

I do have sympathy for the plight of the Native American culture and how the white man basically destroyed it. I do wish to preserve their heritage. I also believe that the world is a different place and that anybody, from any culture, should learn to navigate the chage, whatever it may be, with common sense, intelligence, and respect.

Years back when my father's side of the amily migrated here from Europe they were proud to learn english and become Americans. Today people entering our homeland have expectations of us changing to fit the culture they chose to leave. I think this is wrong. I think it is right to respect heritage but if i wanted to speak a different language I would move to a different country.

The Native Americans are different as they were here first. This was their land and we took it from them. I cannot speak for what was done as I was not there, but I also cannot excuse a failure to accept reality.

The reality is that to most of us uneducated white people living in ignorance of native American culture a place called "** Mountain" in Maine was always a good reason to tell our children stories of Native Americans. That opportunity is now threatened by this: http://www.petitiononline.com/eastern/petition.html which is an example of how Native American culture is defeating itself and its efforts to be respected by all.

It is very sad that stuff like this is happening. We should embrace our Native Americans and they should, in my opinion, accept such fine establishments as this as promoting their way of life instead of being a threat to it.

[Rachelle]

I have no direct knowledge of the Native American way of life other than what I've read or watched on television. But I have always had great respected for the Native Americans. When I hear people say, "they" (as in anyone from another country) need to go back from where they came. I quickly remind them that our great country wouldn't exist if it weren't for people from other countries coming here, and that Native Americans are the only people that have the right to complain.

The predjudice that goes on today is unreal, and totally uncalled for. You would think that after so many years, we would have learned from our mistakes, and learned to live in peace with people of all races and religions. I have enjoyed reading both of these posts, and agree fully with everything that was stated, but this stood out more than anything else....

I do have sympathy for the plight of the Native American culture and how the white man basically destroyed it. I do wish to preserve their heritage. I also believe that the world is a different place and that anybody, from any culture, should learn to navigate the chage, whatever it may be, with common sense, intelligence, and respect.

I applaud this statement! I just wish everyone could think this way.

[Preacher Bob]

The prejudice IS there, but it's not solely white man at fault.

White man has his faults I agree. But the NA shouldn't be going around full of anger and hatred and bitterness blaming whiteman for everything. I lived near several indian reservations, and I have seen all this anger and hatred they have for us, saying we're ripping them off, when lots of times they allow themselves to be ripped off.

At the Navajo indian reservation in SE Utah, a number of Navajo claimed to be ripped off by the oil companies that drilled there. Only a few bucks is all they get. BUT, as found out when investiagted, they aren't mentioning that they also said they didn't want money as much as "other stuff". Other stuff like getting a home built to the design they want, where they want, water wells drilled, and if no water is available, water gets trucked in at company expense. Electric is brought in, at compay expense. Everything they want is paid for, including nice cars or trucks and even paying for their kidsand grandkids college. Yeah, they get a lot of scholarships for being NA, but if you saw the mountain of paper work, you'd understand. So then the companies throw their hands in the air saying "What more could they want? We gave them everything they wanted!", which is true. In some cases they got a lot more than a white family would have gotten.

I have mentioned this before, here and elsewhere, about a man and his father. Both Navajos, and they live like their ancestors. So many times I have heard the NA scream about how it's all white man's fault they can't like like their ancestors. Funny, because as Certificate of Indian Blood card holders, they can. Not only on the reservation, but in BLM & USFS land. That man and his father, they do that. They have a few horses, and in a few places they have Hogans set up for living in. They live just like their ancestors do. Nothing stops the complaining NA from doing it, except it's far easier to go hit up Burger King for a meal than kill a deer and prep it. Being lazy has it's draw backs.

I have gotten fed up with being inslted by indians because I'm white.

[Pegasuss]

I have no fault with native Americans, my late partner was 1/4, if you read the treaties theirs not one we didn't break.

Sure war has winners and losers, and the NA lost to gunpowder, but it doesn't mean we have to disrespect them and

their beliefs. If you read about their beliefs it's in harmony with life and nature. Most people forget they are a sovereign

nation within the boundaries of the usa.

[panpareil]

There is mounting evidence that the recent Asian migrations to the Americas of the Amerind peoples were not the first settlements of this continent, and the previous settlers do not seem to be of Asian stock. Instead these settlers may be of south pacific peoples more closely related to Australian aborigines and the Dravidians of India. Another group seem to be Eurasian. Neither of these earlier Americans are of Asian stock. There is also evidence that there may also have been a migration from western Europe.

So it looks like those who are calling themselves native American peoples are in fact no more native than the rest of us, and also displaced a previous population.

[Rev Ed]

Sorry, but there is no such thing as a "Native American." Everyone living in the Americas are either an immigrant, or are descended from immigrants.

[RevHallford]

Sorry, but there is no such thing as a "Native American." Everyone living in the Americas are either an immigrant, or are descended from immigrants.

Yup, exactly the same thing can be said for every continent on Earth outside of Africa...

[Theresa]

The reality is that to most of us uneducated white people living in ignorance of native American culture a place called "** Mountain" in Maine was always a good reason to tell our children stories of Native Americans. That opportunity is now threatened by this: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.petitiononline.com/eastern/petition.html" target="_blank">http://www.petitiononline.com/eastern/petition.html</a> which is an example of how Native American culture is defeating itself and its efforts to be respected by all.

It is very sad that stuff like this is happening. We should embrace our Native Americans and they should, in my opinion, accept such fine establishments as this as promoting their way of life instead of being a threat to it.

"The American Indian Movement, Northeast Woodlands, is calling for an economic boycott against ** Mountain Resort in Greenville, Maine, where activities of a recreational nature occur year-round. "

Quote taken from the petition.

Why do you think the word ** is bleeped out?

Edited September 17, 2007 by Theresa

[Rev Kuespert]

Welcome back Theresa.

[Theresa]

Hi Love

Yeah the _itch is back. Here to confront the idiocy concerning Nates.

[Samadhi]

They have a great deal to be angry about in my opinion. Yet, if one has the power to hate, hopefully one can learn to use that power to forgive. I do not believe naming a team "Redskins" is done out of a desire to preserve heritage. Recently, the University of Illinois retired Chief Illiniwek. Having a white student dressed up as a 'chief' and dancing around the sidelines is foolish and lacks respect. It would be incorrect to think there is some type of honor in this after the Whites forced the Illinwek tribe(who the chief was based on) off of their land in Illinois.

Today, even tribes disagree on whether it should be permitted to have Indian sounding names or not. Curiously, the NCAA is trying to force some teams to stop using Indian nicknames like the Fighting Sioux of North Dakota, yet still are fine with someteams to use them (Florida State Seminoles). I speculate it might have something to do with the massive amounts of money that are made off of FSU Seminole merchandise (at least here in Florida), etc...honor dies where interest lies...particularly financial.

[Whirling Dervish]

So it looks like those who are calling themselves native American peoples are in fact no more native than the rest of us, and also displaced a previous population.

... also displaced again and again right here in some instances. I'm sure without any hope of gaining a sovereign nation within this one either. I can see why some choose to keep themselves separate. It's survival.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Torpedo Vegas

[Cornelius]

They have a great deal to be angry about in my opinion. Yet, if one has the power to hate, hopefully one can learn to use that power to forgive. I do not believe naming a team "Redskins" is done out of a desire to preserve heritage. Recently, the University of Illinois retired Chief Illiniwek. Having a white student dressed up as a 'chief' and dancing around the sidelines is foolish and lacks respect. It would be incorrect to think there is some type of honor in this after the Whites forced the Illinwek tribe(who the chief was based on) off of their land in Illinois.

Today, even tribes disagree on whether it should be permitted to have Indian sounding names or not. Curiously, the NCAA is trying to force some teams to stop using Indian nicknames like the Fighting Sioux of North Dakota, yet still are fine with someteams to use them (Florida State Seminoles). I speculate it might have something to do with the massive amounts of money that are made off of FSU Seminole merchandise (at least here in Florida), etc...honor dies where interest lies...particularly financial.

If I remember correctly the seminole tribe endorses the florida state seminoles.

Yep looked it up.

Today, they have sovereignty over their tribal lands, and an economy based on tobacco, tourism and gambling. The "Seminoles" are also the symbol of the athletic teams of Florida State University. In response to the NCAA's proclamation that Native American names and logos will not be permitted by its member institutions unless the namesake tribe concurs, both the 3,100-member Seminole Tribe of Florida and the 6,000-member Seminole Nation of Oklahoma have officially approved the relationship and the details of the images used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminole

So it seems as long as you have permission it's a-ok.

One has to wonder how much the tribe is making off of it though.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Blackthorn

[Theresa]

"If you are the subject of racism, then that becomes the lens through which you filter other situations," said teacher Laury Scandling

"In this matter of racial prejudice we of the Caucasian race are more guilty than any other. Wherever the white man has gone the natives of another color have suffered at his hands. Alaska is no exception. The present generation of native Alaskans is keenly aware of the unjust discrimination and exploitation of his race by unscrupulous white men. Many young Eskimos have been educated in the higher government schools or in the mission schools of the Territory. Many have served creditably in various theaters during the recent war. They have lived with whites of their own age. They have seen the outside world. Theoretical democracy has been a part of their indoctrination. Can they be expected to return to their native villages to resume again a position of dumb acceptance of the white man's word or wish as the law of their village? I think not. These young natives are now fully informed of their rights as American citizens. For the first time in the history of Alaska, the native vote is something which political aspirants must reckon with."

Exerpt from:

Men of the Tundra: Alaska Eskimos at War

by Muktuk Marston

Copyright © 1969, 1972

October House Inc, New York

Chapter 11, paragraph 2

The Alaskan Eskimos in World War II

Theresa

Edited October 5, 2007 by Theresa

[Theresa]

Years back when my father's side of the amily migrated here from Europe they were proud to learn english and become Americans. Today people entering our homeland have expectations of us changing to fit the culture they chose to leave. I think this is wrong. I think it is right to respect heritage but if i wanted to speak a different language I would move to a different country.

The Native Americans are different as they were here first. This was their land and we took it from them. I cannot speak for what was done as I was not there, but I also cannot excuse a failure to accept reality.

"Many times people respond to the destruction of Native American languages and cultures by pointing out that European languages were also attacked in the United States. How are these circumstances different? If the immigrants gave up their languages and cultures in the United States, at least somewhere those languages and cultures continued in the "old country." For Native American societies THIS is the old country and if the language and culture is wiped out here, it is wiped from the earth. Many Native languages and cultures were so destroyed. A second difference is that European immigrants chose to come to the United States while for Native American Nations the United States came, saw, and occupied much of our lands. There is not point in guilt about this but neither should there be any lies of "manifest destiny." Manifest destiny deserves to be tossed on the dust bin of racism disguised as history."

To thinking differently. ...Paul Ongtooguk

The colorization is mine.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Theresa

[Theresa]

When I was growing up and going to school it was illegal for Alaskan Natives to speak their own languages. If caught using one word of your own language you could be beaten. My hands have many minor scars from being whacked with the old fashioned wooden rulers the kind with the metal edge. To this day I refuse to buy them for my kids, they get the clear plastic kind.

In highschool the vice-principle was so afraid of the Native kids he carried a pistol inside his suit jacket. We planned a way to expose him - one of the boys "bumped" into him in the stairwell. He became confrontational and his suit jacket fell open, exposing the gun. An undercover cop arrested him on the spot.

In my former job as a Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation Counselor in Alaska, I was required to take a class in cross cultural communications in order to maintain my certification. I considered the class a redundancy in my life, but I had to take it anyway.

This class was taught by a caucasian, Catholic Nun (dressed in street clothes) she made me angry when she told the class that all shaman were insane. So I pointed out that in her own reference material for the class, modern psychologists consider them their peers.

I waited outside of the class when it was over so we could talk. When she finally came out I asked her why the church had to get rid of the eskimo way. Her exact words were, "We had to get rid of the eskimo religion, don't you see? We couldn't let everyone walk around being their own Pope now could we?"

These experiences along with a lifetime of polite predjudice have a tendency to make me at times angry and/or frustrated. I've been through periods where I become confrontational, and others where I become educational.

The only thing that really frustrates me now are the wanna be Indians and the red apples, who have decided that they know more about the "Indian way of life and the Indian religion" than the people who actually live it.

In one of my term papers for the cross cultural comunications class I asked, "Why is it when you wear what we wear, when you eat what we eat, when you do as we do, when you live as we live you are one of us, but no matter what we can never be one of you?"

One of my cousins refused to admit that he was eskimo, he would tell people that he was Japanese.

To this day I haven't recieved an answer from the instructor, though I do know what it is.

[chi]

Well,

The simple reason history books are biased is hat the dominant culture writes the books. It has been this way since time began, regardless of the struggle, the memories of the "battle" are always slanted toward the "winning" side, if you can call it that. This is normal. It may not be "right" but it is normal and it is how humans have documented their history forever.

The naming of school mascots, moutains, towns, and companies after Native Americans, to the best of my knowledge, was typically done to preserve their heritage, not destroy it. Our politically correct culture today is removing the traces of our history that have to do with Native Americans at their request and as such they are less in the mindset of the average American than they were 30 years ago. Heck, my college team was the "Resksins" and now they are the "Redhawks"... Go figure...

Most native American traditional cultures want as little to do with American politics and government as possible. To them we are still viewed as the people who took their land and screwed up the balance of nature. Why do I think this? I think it because I had a priviledge of spearfishing in Wisconsin on a reservation when I was in college. I thionk it because I worked on a job in Eastport Maine and spent time every day on a reservation for a year. I think it because I studied Native American culture in college and I think it because I have a good friend who is a Native American and lives on a reservation.

My family settled on the Kennebec river in Maine in the 1600's. My mother passed down stories to me of Indian raids and how our family was taken to Canada and sold into slavery by the Indians. There are 14 graves behind my Mom's home testifying to the violence of the struggle for survival. I have no idea who was right and who was wrong, or if it was just a simple mis-understanding, but the tragedy was very real and a couple of my ancient relatives escaped from slavery and returned to tell their tales.

I am aware of certain reservations, and certain areas on them, that you do not want to travel if you are white. If you do, you will be hurt.

I do have sympathy for the plight of the Native American culture and how the white man basically destroyed it. I do wish to preserve their heritage. I also believe that the world is a different place and that anybody, from any culture, should learn to navigate the chage, whatever it may be, with common sense, intelligence, and respect.

Years back when my father's side of the amily migrated here from Europe they were proud to learn english and become Americans. Today people entering our homeland have expectations of us changing to fit the culture they chose to leave. I think this is wrong. I think it is right to respect heritage but if i wanted to speak a different language I would move to a different country.

The Native Americans are different as they were here first. This was their land and we took it from them. I cannot speak for what was done as I was not there, but I also cannot excuse a failure to accept reality.

The reality is that to most of us uneducated white people living in ignorance of native American culture a place called "** Mountain" in Maine was always a good reason to tell our children stories of Native Americans. That opportunity is now threatened by this: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.petitiononline.com/eastern/petition.html" target="_blank">http://www.petitiononline.com/eastern/petition.html</a> which is an example of how Native American culture is defeating itself and its efforts to be respected by all.

It is very sad that stuff like this is happening. We should embrace our Native Americans and they should, in my opinion, accept such fine establishments as this as promoting their way of life instead of being a threat to it.

Those names that got changed are gone forever my children's school team changed from warriors to falcon

I know that mountain you speak off and have spent many summers in Greenville.

Here in Massachusetts and along the eastern coast line the name now attached to native Americans is casino's

[Theresa]

Those names that got changed are gone forever my children's school team changed from warriors to falcon

I know that mountain you speak off and have spent many summers in Greenville.

Here in Massachusetts and along the eastern coast line the name now attached to native Americans is casino's

That's fine we were great gamblers long before the Euros came along.